32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[tothemoon]

Wow. What is the context behind this wheel train?

Which part number is it and was it recommended by Rolex as a fix?

Originally Posted by Via reggio

wheel in watch vs sparepart

[enjoythemusic]

Interesting pics.

[sheldonsmith]

Originally Posted by Via reggio

wheel in watch vs sparepart

This photo (or one very similar) has been published before and contributed to the lack of lubrication theory that has been bantered about these last few years. You can see a groove worn at the top of the pivot... (I believe that is the correct term for the portion that inserts into a jewell).

-Sheldon

[Via reggio]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

This photo (or one very similar) has been published before and contributed to the lack of lubrication theory that has been bantered about these last few years. You can see a groove worn at the top of the pivot... (I believe that is the correct term for the portion that inserts into a jewell).

-Sheldon

I think it was the second wheel picture you mean?
Yes there is a groove in the pivot (normal spot for wear)
But the design of the axle is also changed, maybe just a production
change or its for something.

[Via reggio]

Originally Posted by tothemoon

Wow. What is the context behind this wheel train?

Which part number is it and was it recommended by Rolex as a fix?

In for service, it was about 7 years old.
No recommendation just a discovery i made being curious and looking for wear on parts and also comparing old and new parts.

There is information that the pallet bridge needs epilame because of migration of lubricant from dial side, interfering with the pallet fork, this information came a couple of years ago and was updated information for many calibers(3135, 2235 etc) and not exclusively for 32.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by sheldonsmith

This photo (or one very similar) has been published before and contributed to the lack of lubrication theory that has been bantered about these last few years. You can see a groove worn at the top of the pivot... (I believe that is the correct term for the portion that inserts into a jewell).

-Sheldon

This guy is member since 10 hours with 5 posts all in this thread

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

This guy is member since 10 hours with 5 posts all in this thread

Maybe he knows Kung Fu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vMO3XmNXe4

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Via reggio

wheel in watch vs sparepart

Most interesting
Thanks for sharing.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Most interesting

Not at all Dirt … without any more technical details. The poster also does not provide any background about his expertise.

Much more interesting, at least to me, are caliber data measured for 2023 and new 2024 watches with 32xx calibers. This was and still is the objective for this thread, to collect facts and "real data" - look back at post #1 in this thread.

There are enough 32xx nonsense threads on the internet, including this site. All above of course is only my personal view.

As soon as you reach 300 posts in this thread the management should consider to grant you the TRF Ig Nobel Prize.

[tothemoon]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Not at all Dirt … without any more technical details. The poster also does not provide any background about his expertise.

Much more interesting, at least to me, are caliber data measured for 2023 and new 2024 watches with 32xx calibers. This was and still is the objective for this thread, to collect facts and "real data" - look back at post #1 in this thread.

There are enough 32xx nonsense threads on the internet, including this site. All above of course is only my personal view.

As soon as you reach 300 posts in this thread the management should consider to grant you the TRF Ig Nobel Prize.

Once there is enough, can you summarize the 2923 vs 2024 data?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by tothemoon

Once there is enough, can you summarize the 2923 vs 2024 data?

Yes, but more timegrapher data is needed in this thread. There are not many members who do such measurements in a systematic and useful way (no criticism!).

Below is a very good example how to track a 32xx watch using a timegrapher. A Submariner 126610LV, caliber 3235, purchased in 05/2023, measured in 07/2023 and 01/2024. Watch and measurements from EasyE



This 3235 watch, only about 7 months old in 01/2024, obviously had too low amplitudes in all three vertical positions.
The movement issue was already visible directly after purchase! BUT ONLY WITH A TIMEGRAPHER.

[Penelope2017]

I had a 2021 no date Sub - a real grail watch and a regular wear. After awhile, I saw it losing time that I actually noticed (other 32xx series watches of mine lose time, but at such a slow rate that it's essentially a none issue). I took it to the AD a couple months ago, they said it had low amplitude and so sent it in for service. It came back about a month ago. Not only were the hands ever so slightly misaligned, but the time-keeping did not improve (I did not have a timegrapher at the point, but now I do). Being pretty thoroughly disappointed and knowing of the recurring 32xx issues, I sold the Sub yesterday. Wanting a replacement and a clean slate, I went to my AD just to browse and chat, but they ended up having the new METAS Tudor monochrome - so I bought it. Now, of course the Sub runs circles around the Tudor in terms of aesthetics and that's big part of the whole experience, but Tudor gives off a nice, if brutalist, Sub vibe and has the huge benefit of an extraordinarily robust movement. I will certainly be paying more attention to Tudor, and maybe even Omega lol.

I am now keeping track for my 3 other 32xx series watches (DJ, OP, EX2) and may publish my findings here. It's really disappointing how Rolex's inability / refusal to address the issue has sucked the fun out of collecting their watches for me.

One question I had was whether this issue, which seems commented to the new escapement could also pop up in other watches with this new tech - such at that in the Daytona.

[Penelope2017]

Sorry for the awkward format/spacing - best I could do at the moment. First amplitude is the OP, next is the DJ, and the final set is the EXP II

OP 41 DJ 41 EXP II
FULL
DU 278 0 s/d 277 +1 s/d 278 +1 s/d
3U 233 -1 s/d 235 -1 s/d 245 0 s/d
6U 239 -1 s/d 230 0 s/d 242 -3 s/d
9U 239 0 s/d 235 0 s/d 241 -2 s/d
DD 296 -2 s/d 263 +2 s/d 277 +1 s/d

12 HOURS
DU 264 +1 s/d 270 +1 s/d 262 +1 s/d
3U 224 -1 s/d 234 -1 s/d 230 -1 s/d
6U 226 0 s/d 232 +1 s/d 236 0 s/d
9U 234 0 s/d 233 0 s/d 234 -2 s/d
DD 262 -3 s/d 256 +2 s/d 265 0 s/d

24 HOURS
DU 254 +1 s/d 256 +2 s/d 255 0 s/d
3U 216 -1 s/d 223 -2 s/d 227 -2 s/d
6U 219 0 s/d 221 -1 s/d 226 0 s/d
9U 216 -5 s/d 221 -2 s/d 227 -2 s/d
DD 252 -2 s/d 243 +1 s/d 253 0 s/d

36 HOURS
DU 233 +1 s/d 252 +1 s/d 246 0 s/d
3U 193 -3 s/d 213 -2 s/d 216 -1 s/d
6U 196 -1 s/d 210 -2 s/d 221 -1 s/d
9U 197 -5 s/d 207 -2 s/d 213 -3 s/d
DD 239 -3 s/d 241 +2 s/d 233 -1 s/d

48 HOURS
DU 223 0 s/d 222 +1 s/d 220 -1 s/d
3U 174 -2 s/d 194 -3 s/d 195 -3 s/d
6U 172 0 s/d 188 -5 s/d 206 -2 s/d
9U 176 -8 s/d 190 -2 s/d 196 -4 s/d
DD 211 -3 s/d 218 +1 s/d 222 -2 s/d

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

Sorry for the awkward format/spacing - best I could do at the moment. First amplitude is the OP, next is the DJ, and the final set is the EXP II

How old (month/year) are these 3 watches?
What is your conclusion from these data?
What was the timegrapher lift angle setting?

The arrangement of all these numbers is not very clear, the use of tables or graphs would be much better for an overview and a comparison.

[Penelope2017]

Originally Posted by saxo3

How old (month/year) are these 3 watches?
What is your conclusion from these data?
What was the timegrapher lift angle setting?

The arrangement of all these numbers is not very clear, the use of tables or graphs would be much better for an overview and a comparison.

I'll try to get it better organized when I have more time. The lift angle I used was 53. The OP was purchased 1/24, the DJ 10/23, & the EXP II 12/22.

The amplitude of the the DJ and the EXP II look pretty good imo (though I'm less enthusiastic about the rate in vertical positions). The OP is a bit more questionable on amplitude, but still holds values over 200 after 24 hours.

[Penelope2017]

Here is a crude layout of some of the data

[Penelope2017]

the last entry:

[tothemoon]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

the last entry:

Amazing data!

One more question. What was the average time loss/gain across the entire 48 hours?

[Penelope2017]

Originally Posted by tothemoon

Amazing data!

One more question. What was the average time loss/gain across the entire 48 hours?

I didn't keep track of that during this run. However, they usual daily accuracy is as follows (reflective of wearing during the day & dial up at night for all watches):

EXP II = -0.3 s/d
DJ = +0.2 s/d
OP = -1 s/d

[Easy E]

Your numbers look pretty good to me.

[krounchou]

I am not an expert, but these numbers look really good to me. I wouldn't do anything unless it starts deviating seriously.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

I'll try to get it better organized when I have more time. The lift angle I used was 53. The OP was purchased 1/24, the DJ 10/23, & the EXP II 12/22.

Are the following 3 references and calibers correct for your watches?

OP41 = Ref.124300, caliber 3230
DJ41 = Ref. 26333, caliber 3235
EXP II = Ref. 226570, caliber 3285

[Penelope2017]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Are the following 3 references and calibers correct for your watches?

OP41 = Ref.124300, caliber 3230
DJ41 = Ref. 26333, caliber 3235
EXP II = Ref. 226570, caliber 3285

slight adjustment:
DJ41 = Ref. 126334, caliber 3235
the other two are correct

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

Here is a crude layout of some of the data

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

the last entry:

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

The amplitude of the the DJ and the EXP II look pretty good imo (though I'm less enthusiastic about the rate in vertical positions). The OP is a bit more questionable on amplitude, but still holds values over 200 after 24 hours.

Here is my graphical display of all your data.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

I didn't keep track of that during this run. However, they usual daily accuracy is as follows (reflective of wearing during the day & dial up at night for all watches):

EXP II = -0.3 s/d
DJ = +0.2 s/d
OP = -1 s/d

The observed daily accuracies (see values above) fit VERY well with the timegrapher 5-position average rates measured at t = 0 (after full winding) by the timegrapher; see the numbers below and the right graph.

EXP II = -0.6 s/d
DJ 41 = +0.4 s/d
OP 41 = -0.8 s/d

[Penelope2017]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The observed daily accuracies (see values above) fit VERY well with the timegrapher 5-position average rates measured at t = 0 (after full winding) by the timegrapher; see the numbers below and the right graph.

EXP II = -0.6 s/d
DJ 41 = +0.4 s/d
OP 41 = -0.8 s/d

This is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for your time in putting these charts together!

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

This is absolutely amazing! Thank you so much for your time in putting these charts together!

[belutak]

Originally Posted by Penelope2017

I had a 2021 no date Sub - a real grail watch and a regular wear. After awhile, I saw it losing time that I actually noticed (other 32xx series watches of mine lose time, but at such a slow rate that it's essentially a none issue). I took it to the AD a couple months ago, they said it had low amplitude and so sent it in for service. It came back about a month ago. Not only were the hands ever so slightly misaligned, but the time-keeping did not improve (I did not have a timegrapher at the point, but now I do). Being pretty thoroughly disappointed and knowing of the recurring 32xx issues, I sold the Sub yesterday. Wanting a replacement and a clean slate, I went to my AD just to browse and chat, but they ended up having the new METAS Tudor monochrome - so I bought it. Now, of course the Sub runs circles around the Tudor in terms of aesthetics and that's big part of the whole experience, but Tudor gives off a nice, if brutalist, Sub vibe and has the huge benefit of an extraordinarily robust movement. I will certainly be paying more attention to Tudor, and maybe even Omega lol.

I am now keeping track for my 3 other 32xx series watches (DJ, OP, EX2) and may publish my findings here. It's really disappointing how Rolex's inability / refusal to address the issue has sucked the fun out of collecting their watches for me.

One question I had was whether this issue, which seems commented to the new escapement could also pop up in other watches with this new tech - such at that in the Daytona.

My brand new Sub started loosing 2-3s a day out of nowhere, a few days ago. It was at 0-0 for three months and last week suddenly went off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[saxo3]

You started another thread a few hours ago and now want to discuss in parallel with less watch information here? Not satisfied with the replies over there? Here we collect and discuss 32xx data.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by belutak

My brand new Sub started loosing 2-3s a day out of nowhere, a few days ago. It was at 0-0 for three months and last week suddenly went off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is actually pretty normal behavior as a movement on a brand new watch "settles in" after a while. Sometimes the accuracy improves, sometimes not. But your Sub appears to still be in spec.