First time dealing with a grey dealer - delayed payment

[RRJ]

Hey everyone! For the first time in my watch collecting journey I decided to sell off a piece I just wasn't really wearing anymore, my previous gen Daytona Ghost.

A grey dealer took my watch in on consignment and sold it on the 25th of june and apparantly received the payment either on the same day or shortly after. I was told I'd get they payment minus cost for polishing but got no date confirmation. After following up continously he called me today and apologized, apparently I needed to sign a purchase agreement instead of a consignment one since the agreed upon amount was slightly lower in the final sale (I knew of this and agreed to it).

Since this was my first and most definitely last time doing business with a grey dealer, is that normal or to be expected? The grey dealer had an immense inventory and some pieces from GF and MB&F I was really interested in, in general they are very reputable, especially in Switzerland.

[Miker86]

A bit worrying to be honest. Every time a grey dealer goes rogue it starts with constant excuses and delays of payment, which rumble on till eventually they go radio silent and abscond.

Will likely be ok but would take this as a lesson to never consign a watch again, just not worth the risk for the relatively small increase in sale price. Also regarding his large inventory who’s to say it’s just not other consignment watches? He could be running on a very small budget with minimal liquidity.

[Andad]

I think the seller is making up the rules as he goes along.

[Joearch]

You are almost a full month past the sale of the watch. I would be very concerned regarding lack of payment.

[travisb]

Should have been a few days tops.
That would not sit well with me.

[Harry-57]

If there is a doubt there is no doubt. My golden rule is to deal with greys in person at their business premises when buying or selling. I live in a relatively small country so traveling isn't an issue.

[Neil McCauley]

Slimy slimy grey dealers. The scourge of the watch industry.

Don't consign your watches.

OP I hope you get this sorted soon and you are made whole.

[OG1982]

I would NEVER consign a watch with a business that I didn't know intimately. Think TPG and trust nobody, even if they have a shiny shop front!

You are giving them an interest free loan, especially in today’s market where grey dealers are struggling, there are too many cowboys now masquerading as 'watch dealers'.

[Bozzie1982]

I've dealt with grey dealers in the past and built up a really good relationship with one in particular. So much so I've had the money in my account even before they've received the watch.

It sounds like a cash flow problem at their end to me. I'd draft up an email, give them a reasonable deadline to make and then I'd go down the legal route with them.

No excuse if they've sold the watch they have received the money.

[BriansRolex]

A month after the watch sells and you still haven't been paid? Major red flag IMO.

[majidessa]

Originally Posted by OG1982

I would NEVER consign a watch with a business that I didn't know intimately. Think TPG and trust nobody, even if they have a shiny shop front!

You are giving them an interest free loan, especially in today’s market where grey dealers are struggling, there are too many cowboys now masquerading as 'watch dealers'.

Not just TPG, majority of YouTube Grey dealers are shady and run different questionable schemes

[77T]

Time to serve them with a bigfoot letter from your attorney.

Maybe file a police complaint of potential theft by conversion. (If your case has the elements to support it)


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[BillA]

Has the grey told you when to expect payment?

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by OG1982

I would NEVER consign a watch with a business that I didn't know intimately. Think TPG and trust nobody, even if they have a shiny shop front!

You are giving them an interest free loan, especially in today’s market where grey dealers are struggling, there are too many cowboys now masquerading as 'watch dealers'.

This

Consigning a watch means they can do business with pretty much zero risk to them, operating with money and stock that isn't theirs. In my opinion, it should be illegal.
I've said this before on here and got shouted at by a grey dealer saying they do take on risk doing this, but it's nonsense, there is ZERO financial risk to them taking someone else's property and sticking it in their own window or website. Nothing whatsoever. The only person carrying the risk is the actual owner who no longer has access to their valuable property.

If you can't run a profitable, organised business by buying and managing your own stock with money owned by the actual business itself, you shouldn't be in business at all.

OP - if this isn't resolved soon I'd be naming and shaming the dealer.

[RRJ]

Thanks for the inputs guys. After putting some pressure on the dealer I was sent a confirmation from their bank a couple of minutes ago.

I was very new to this so I didn't really know what to expect, but this experience made me lose interest in ever doing business with them again. From know on I'll go back to my boutqie only approach again. Again, thanks for chiming in everyone!

[Calatrava r]

Glad you got it sorted out.

[Harry-57]

Good to hear. Hope it clears.

[Michael T]

The market has been declining for a year. The days of inventory holding gains are gone. Not surprised of the cash flow issue. A consignment is a risky venture.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by RRJ

Thanks for the inputs guys. After putting some pressure on the dealer I was sent a confirmation from their bank a couple of minutes ago.

I was very new to this so I didn't really know what to expect, but this experience made me lose interest in ever doing business with them again. From know on I'll go back to my boutqie only approach again. Again, thanks for chiming in everyone!

Glad you got this sorted and didn't need to take it further.

It's funny, it takes years to build a good reputation, and minutes to destroy it.

[Potawatomi]

Sounds like a very famous watch diller who had his own diller university. Those consignment guys are the dirtiest of sillsmen

[jgottsman11]

Tell us who the grey dealer is so we don't have to use them either

[KatGirl]

After The Anthony Farrer debacle, I’m surprised anyone deals with consignment dealers. It’s a setup that is way too risky. OP, that was a fast turn around in the end. You started a thread, and after waiting nearly a month, your money is suddenly on its way. This guy probably used the money from your watch to pay someone, whose watch he sold weeks before yours. That’s their real business model, though they would claim otherwise. Let’s hope your money is really on its way. Good luck.

Kat


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[Zach69SS]

I agree with others, consignment is a tricky road to take, unless you really know the dealer and still anyone can have money problems, no matter how big they are! An overextension or personal problem can wipe them out. It’s already done so it is best to try and resolve it.

I don’t know where you are so you maybe limited on the things you can do legally or even with the authorities. Find out what the best legal option is and then take action.

If you are near the dealer, I would go see them in person without being combative or threatening and ask for your payment.


This is why, I would never give a watch to anyone to sell not even the biggest dealer in the world. If they are so big they can buy it in the spot, especially a Ghost which is in demand.
Too many horror stories. Like TPG and others.

Best of luck with your situation, it’s sad that things have to be this way.

[fsprow]

As with most businesses, there are good dealers and bad dealers. I have found the good ones excellent to work with, quite reliable and offer goods which are in fine condition and pay promptly. Dont write off working with resellers - just do your homework and deal with those who have great reputations.

I have done consignment sales with resellers who I trust with zero problems.

[IGY]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

After The Anthony Farrer debacle, I’m surprised anyone deals with consignment dealers. It’s a setup that is way too risky. OP, that was a fast turn around in the end. You started a thread, and after waiting nearly a month, your money is suddenly on its way. This guy probably used the money from your watch to pay someone, whose watch he sold weeks before yours. That’s their real business model, though they would claim otherwise. Let’s hope your money is really on its way. Good luck.

Kat


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Because not all watch dealers behave or have the morals of Anthony Farrer. Very often in life you need to do business with people and form judgements about whether they will waste your time or downright try to cheat you.

Farrer stood out a five thousand four hundred miles away. Similar story here in the UK, there is well know a watch dealer (with popular Youtube account) that has been 1) involved with unpaid VAT (sales tax) / disputes with the inland revenue, 2) shows negative net assets and minimal working capital on their late filed accounts at companies house and 3) has directors that have been prosecuted previously for Class A drug dealing. Yet they are posting videos of footballers (soccer players) picking up the latest hot piece and some people seemingly are quite happy to do business with them both buying and selling watches. Given minimal working capital I imagine that a huge proportion of their watches are consigned.

There are other dealers here in the UK that I would and do trust. Which ones? Well, people need to do their own due diligence. Such dealers have good legal teams that arrange contracts that are very clear about negotiating wiggle room, commission, length of consignment agreement, other sales fees, early consignment cancellation clause and time and method of payment upon successful sale. And they communicate with you every step of the way from collection of your watch, serious enquiries about it, when a buyer has your watch, escrow period and when to expect your money. No room or misunderstanding. Even so I would not consign more than one valuable watches at one time with anyone.

[Mr Ben]

Was it not a key employee who was previously jailed for class A drug dealing and the director just done for receiving stolen goods?

Their latest accounts are mind boggling and a prime example of somewhere not to consign given they have gone from a 7 figure amount in stock to nil in their very overdue accounts.

And you didn’t mention their last “incident”. Did the National Crime Agency not confiscate all their consignment stock and force people to prove they acquired it legitimately and claim it back? I never did hear all the details with that one despite a lot of press coverage at the time.

[IGY]

I imagine that we are thinking about the same Charlies.

[Hodog16]

Glad to hear it's all sorted. I've sold a few pieces to well-known grey's here (Takuya and DavidSW), and in both cases they sent me an overnight label and I had money in my account in 1-2 days.

[Space1970]

Originally Posted by IGY

I imagine that we are thinking about the same Charlies.

They seem to appoint a new director whenever things go bad and just carry on
But yeah surely at some point it folds in on them

The glossy YouTube content seems to stop many from people looking closer

But it's also common practice for the content to be staged and not actual customers buying/selling watches

Very glad the OP finally received payment for his watch

[Chiboy]

Maybe it's the terminology, but I don't think it's over until the wire is received and clears.