Rolex buying "experience" has left me kinda sour

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Now you’re just repeating yourself. It’s a little sad.

I'm illustrating that these are facts and not opinions. If you think I'm making stuff up, go and do some research. The watch channels on YouTube are not short of Rolex/GS comparisons, with macro photography.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Dunno man

Watch this review of Rolex vs grand seiko vs A Lange and Sohn, all under magnification, and the Rolex comes last. Rolex also gets skewered in the comments because of the findings in the video


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hKrJOM...9hcmlvbg%3D%3D

Thank you!

[IGY]

And another such video with macro photography. Hafiz makes the point that these blemishes are annoyingly visible with the Mk.1 eyeball alone and not requiring macro lenses to illustrate. Just makes it even more obvious on a video to use the macro shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsPZURSJEDQ

There are also numerous stories about low amplitude on some Chronenergy movements leaving Rolex's factory quality control.

Not to say that Grand Seiko is perfect. But I do get the impression that Grand Seiko is more consistent in it's quality.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

I'm illustrating that these are facts and not opinions. If you think I'm making stuff up, go and do some research. The watch channels on YouTube are not short of Rolex/GS comparisons, with macro photography.

You are stating your subjective opinions about watch characteristics and calling them facts, you are calling those who disagree with you “thin-skinned” and you are repeating yourself in the hope that your strategy works the second time around.

Carry on friend, good luck with your ministry. If you keep at it long enough you are bound to find a soul that wants to be saved.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by IGY

Perfect demonstration.

That wasn't me calling rolexpatek363 a fool. I merely stated that if you believe that, then you are a fool. It is up to you if you believe it or not, so in doing so, you insulted yourself.
Learn to read the English language before jumping to conclusions.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by IGY

Not to say that Grand Seiko is perfect. But I do get the impression that Grand Seiko is more consistent in it's quality.

Easy when you're only selling a few thousand watches a year if that.

Try doing it and selling 1.2 million of them and keeping up standards...

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

You are stating your subjective opinions about watch characteristics and calling them facts

GS are hand-finished - true or false?

GS have a wider variety of types of watch movement (4Hz; 5Hz; Spring drive) - true or false?

The quality of finish on GS cases, dials, dial furniture, hands and movements is higher than Rolex - true or false?



How do we find out what is true? We look for evidence. These are facts, not opinions.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

Easy when you're only selling a few thousand watches a year if that.

Try doing it and selling 1.2 million of them and keeping up standards...

So you are kind-of admitting that Rolex QC is slipping because of overproduction...

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

I think it's fair that when you make a comment like you did, to be questioned to come up with some objective reasons as to why your statement is correct.
You didn't manage to do that, all your responses were subjective and open to debate

Pretty much like most of your recent posts passed off as facts but with zero objective, hard data to back them up as any less than purely subjective.

And boy, you do seem to like a good online argument for some bizarre reason.

[IGY]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

That wasn't me calling rolexpatek363 a fool. I merely stated that if you believe that, then you are a fool. It is up to you if you believe it or not, so in doing so, you insulted yourself.
Learn to read the English language before jumping to conclusions.

Let's make this abstract for a second. I know TRF is a wild corner of the geeky internet and that this is written communication rather than face to face. But do you go through your life saying to people "if you believe in position X, then you are a fool"? Let's take an example: "if you believe in god, then you are a fool." Or "if you don't believe in god, then you are a fool." Now you might believe in god or not, but is it reasonable to go round to other people telling them essentially, "if you don't agree with me, then you are a fool". Can't you see how offensive and narrow minded that is? Very weird.

Now earlier you stated something like "I didn't call you (meaning me) a fool but...". Then you edited it out. But that was yet another example of a "straw man fallacy". I've seen you do that on this forum multiple times. It's another weird way in which you communicate.

Anyways. I don't mind disagreeing with people and I'm quite happy to be presented with other points of view. Especially if they are well argued. But my advice to you would be to "focus on playing the ball; not they other players." I don't really mind too much either way. But whatever Neil... you can have the last word. I got nothing else to say to you.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by IGY

Now earlier you stated something like "I didn't call you (meaning me) a fool but...". Then you edited it out. But that was yet another example of a "straw man fallacy". I've seen you do that on this forum multiple times. It's another weird way in which you communicate.

I edited it because I wasn't actually meaning to direct it at you - I misread and thought that rolexpatek had replied to me. Hence why I changed it.

Good day.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

GS are hand-finished - true or false?

GS have a wider variety of types of watch movement (4Hz; 5Hz; Spring drive) - true or false?

The quality of finish on GS cases, dials, dial furniture, hands and movements is higher than Rolex - true or false?



How do we find out what is true? We look for evidence. These are facts, not opinions.

No shizzle Sherlock, quit redirecting the subject. These things are true, your assertions that these particular characteristics make GS a better watch is your OPINION and have been clearly addressed in previous posts.

I have an SLA 021, it has Zaratsu finishing on the hands and case. This characteristic does not make it “better”, it is simply different from my other watches.

This is like arguing with a toddler that can type but can’t read yet.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

These things are true

Great, so they aren't opinions after all. Thanks, and goodbye Kevin of Larchmont with the fitting avatar.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

That wasn't me calling rolexpatek363 a fool. I merely stated that if you believe that, then you are a fool. It is up to you if you believe it or not, so in doing so, you insulted yourself.

So you weren't actually calling me a fool for expressing an opinion which, er, I had already possibly expressed, except I hadn't... Could you go through that explanation of how I insulted myself one more time?



It's only a watch, remember.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Great, so they aren't opinions after all. Thanks, and goodbye Kevin of Larchmont with the fitting avatar.

Nice pivot and avoidance of the subject at hand, now take your ball and go. Your opinion that GS is superior to Rolex remains unsupported. A list of preferred characteristics is not proof in every metric of brand superiority. And I still don’t want one.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

No shizzle Sherlock, quit redirecting the subject. These things are true, your assertions that these particular characteristics make GS a better watch is your OPINION and have been clearly addressed in previous posts.

I have an SLA 021, it has Zaratsu finishing on the hands and case. This characteristic does not make it “better”, it is simply different from my other watches.

This is like arguing with a toddler that can type but can’t read yet.

Agree, I give up. The baby can have his bottle.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

The baby can have his bottle.

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

People who lose in debate over things often resort to low-hanging fruit and insults.

Agreed.

[garyk]

I like my Seikos, not Grand Seikos but certainly grand Seikos! I especially like the ones that were considered Japan market watches years ago.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by garyk

I like my Seikos, not Grand Seikos but certainly grand Seikos! I especially like the ones that were considered Japan market watches years ago.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well done, Gary. The top one especially!

[GW44]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Agreed.

Well played again sir.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

I agree, and when it comes to other brands, Tudor and Grand Seiko are absolutely killing it, and the ADs will treat you with respect.

GS in particular are now making vastly higher-quality and varied watches than Rolex, and Tudor is to all intents & purposes a cut-price Rolex without all the brand baggage - both good and bad. It just depends on how hung-up you are on the little coronet. I bought a GS Spring Drive Omiwatari last month and had to wait a whole two weeks for it to arrive...

GS watches are not in high demand at the moment. That could change, anything can happen. But availability is solely determined by supply and demand and if they are available, supply outpaces demand. This easy retail availability dynamic also determines value retention in the used markets.

[Wilco68]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

GS are hand-finished - true or false?

GS have a wider variety of types of watch movement (4Hz; 5Hz; Spring drive) - true or false?

The quality of finish on GS cases, dials, dial furniture, hands and movements is higher than Rolex - true or false?



How do we find out what is true? We look for evidence. These are facts, not opinions.

GS pieces fail to hold their value - true or false?

(WatchCharts Brand Analytics; GS value retention minus 36.5%, Rolex plus 19.3%)

Nothing against GS, but you seem to like facts so just chucking another one out there…..