AD vs. Grey Market: The Great Debate!

[JRell]

Never grey, only AD. Would never trust it is real and not a dime over retail, especially now.

[t65tampa]

Depends on the watch, the state of the market, and the transaction (buy/sell/trade). In any situation, trustworthiness and confidence must take center stage. I'm lucky to have wonderful authorized Rolex dealers nearby, and I've also met some wonderful private parties and pre-owned reselling dealers that have been fantastic to work with.

[daysky1]

I consider gray market for those watches that my authorized dealer isn't able to provide for me. ? However I do have a limit on how much over retail I'm willing to go and if the watch isn't available for the price that I'm willing to pay then I pass on it and still hope my ad will get one in.

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by JRell

Never grey, only AD. Would never trust it is real and not a dime over retail, especially now.

This.

My length of collection isn't wide as some of the folks here but am happy to have purchased thru an AD at MSRP + sales tax.

One day might consider going to a secondhand seller only if the price is well below MSRP and if that Rolex was discontinued or I'm unable to buy from the AD brand new.

Paying above the retail costs is just not worth it for a nice luxury watch of any brands. Wear it in good health, enjoy and pass it down to family members.

[Nads786]

I bought from an AD as well as Grey. I preferred the grey experience but that pang of doubt of if it's a fake was removed going the AD route.

The AD experience was pretty generic, I didn't even sit down to have my watch sized. I did get a bottle of water and a Rolex pen.

[123Blueface]

Only grey purchase I have ever made is because it was about 22% off list (for a brand new DD40 Everose Olive before the craze).
Everything else is from AD.
Will never pay over retail for watch, regardless of the hype.

[kieselguhr]

No debate really. Best condition on X axis, best price on Y axis. Plot and compare

[martyjanderson]

originally wanted AD but didnt know much about trusted sellers like Nashville and OC and didnt want to deal with chrono 24 ebay, govberg etc

Had I known about OC and Nashville from the start I wouldnt have bothered in even visiting AD other than to try out the Sub and SD 43. That being said I have zero interest in buying any rolex older than a year or two and without box papers etc and unpolished.

[martyjanderson]

Originally Posted by sampelligrino

There's no such thing as a free lunch, and everything has a price. Trusted sellers for me 100000%, and I've sadly spent the kind of money that could have likely fostered a nice relationship with an AD. But what happens if there is a break up, AD gets bought or sold, AD plays games behind the scenes or doesn't deliver on a promise, a bigger whale comes in and wants what you want, etc..

Trusted sellers, make it very simple smooth and easy. Wire this price, get your watch as described and promised overnighted via FedEx.

Agreed. I bought a pelagos 42 from rolex ad to establish relationship on some level. ended up being bored of it and took like 3k loss in selling it. I paid about he same for SD 43 that was one year old in perfect shape from trusted seller.

Perfect and super easy transaction.

[NAUI1982]

Originally Posted by S.Explorer

Always AD unless a discontinued model.

So you’re willing to wait years for a watch? Totally fine, no judgement. But I’m more curious about why “Always AD, unless discontinued model”?

Me. I’m impatient.

[trout_thumper21]

Buy from AD and avoid being way under water like many who paid crazy premiums at the height of the market.

[NAUI1982]

Originally Posted by trout_thumper21

Buy from AD and avoid being way under water like many who paid crazy premiums at the height of the market.

Good one. I guess if we’re paying way over retail because we choose the Grey train, and then those pieces come back to earth, then yup…we’re underwater if you look at these as investments. Which they aren’t.

My wife says we should amortize that extra money over the months that we’d be waiting, so for example, with a Pepsi going to $20k and the wait time like two years, it’s just over $400 a month in premium.

We call that Girl Math!

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by trout_thumper21

Buy from AD and avoid being way under water like many who paid crazy premiums at the height of the market.

Are you saying these are nothing but investments?

If so when should we all flip for big profits?

[BraveBold]

Someone can be a dealer in grey market watches AND also deal with pre-owned (used). Pre-owned can run the entire range in terms of condition. From people who flipped a new watch to vintage or truly “used” pieces.

Grey market pieces are those that bypass official distribution channel(s). Not sure I agree there is no Rolex grey market. If an AD is (inappropriately) feeding brand new watches through channels they know aren’t the end customer, then one can argue that they are bypassing the official distribution channel. The fact they are also an authorized dealer may not mean that channel decision (Rolex -> AD -> additional intermediary -> customer) isn’t part of a grey market for watches.

They could, for example, be bundling multiple pieces to drive volume and turn inventory, with a preference to that dealer channel because of those volume benefits… this differs from selling to a high volume (individual) customer. Even big individual collectors are unlikely to drive equivalent volumes.

From Rolex’s perspective there is now an intermediate layer that they cannot control for its new watches. Some argue they aren’t new and so don’t qualify as “grey market” pieces… but to me, so long as warranty transfers, it is a distinction without difference. For a brand that is all about control, this isn’t a positive. As an amplifier of market conditions, these volume grey buyers (flippers) don’t help either. Rolex enjoys maintaining a tight market but they have more control without this additional intermediary…

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Are you saying these are nothing but investments?

If so when should we all flip for big profits?

Well, it changes a generally reliable asset (and Rolexes are undeniably solid performing assets over time) into something more speculative. You can argue investment or not, but it is besides the point… there are many things that are enjoyed/utilized but also assets and investments. For better or worse, real estate (primary residence) is the single largest asset class for the majority of people in the US. It is also the single biggest investment and treated as such (and the greatest contributor to net worth, and in turn, a driver of wealth-effect spending). It is also clearly something people utilize and that utilization is practically far more important than any wrist watch…

So it isn’t an “either or”… of course Rolexes are assets. Of course they are investments. Whether great investments, mediocre or poor, or whether any single individual views them as such, is moot.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

Well, it changes a generally reliable asset (and Rolexes are undeniably solid performing assets over time) into something more speculative. You can argue investment or not, but it is besides the point… there are many things that are enjoyed/utilized but also assets and investments. For better or worse, real estate (primary residence) is the single largest asset class for the majority of people in the US. It is also the single biggest investment and treated as such (and the greatest contributor to net worth, and in turn, a driver of wealth-effect spending). It is also clearly something people utilize and that utilization is practically far more important than any wrist watch…

So it isn’t an “either or”… of course Rolexes are assets. Of course they are investments. Whether great investments, mediocre or poor, or whether any single individual views them as such, is moot.

Maybe Rolex should save themselves the headache of being in the manufacturing business and roll out RolexCoin for all the investors out there

[wng88]

Originally Posted by trout_thumper21

Buy from AD and avoid being way under water like many who paid crazy premiums at the height of the market.

I did that. Bought grey and prices pretty much started falling right away. Now I’ve registered at a couple of ADs and waiting to see which calls first. And then decide what to sell.

I hadn’t bought anything from an AD in over 10 years so there was absolutely no way that I was going to be offered anything at the time.


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[~Ocho1~]

My last 2 Rolex's have been via grey. I basically paid what the watch would've cost me if I had purchased at AD with Tax. Both still under warranty.

No way I'd pay 40%+ over retail for a watch, just doesn't make sense to me.

[BraveBold]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

Maybe Rolex should save themselves the headache of being in the manufacturing business and roll out RolexCoin for all the investors out there

What they should do is move fully to quartz or digital and build in obsolescence. Will ensure only “real” tool watch buyers spend $10k on a timepiece and suss out anyone who cares about their purchase holding value. They’ll be able to keep prices steady or even cut prices over time.

Brilliant idea!

[amphr1]

Went with grey dealer on my Daytona because my expected lifespan is shorter than the expected wait time for a Daytona without substantial purchase of things I don't want and refuse to buy. I had a tiny bit of doubt of it's authenticity if I was honest. All doubts have vanished this week after receiving it back from a full service from Rolex along with a service card with a 2-year warranty.

My preference would be to buy all my watches from AD. But that isn't going to happen very often, isn't it. I'd say 2/3 watches in my collection are from grey. It isn't only Rolex, Omega also. I'm patience enough to wait 6 months for my Bel Canto. But that is only because I know it will be here in 6 months. I will can't get an estimate on when I might get a GMT from my AD. Eventually I will give in and go grey, but I'm holding out as long as I can since my collection is pretty complete to my satisfaction already.

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[Bozzie1982]

Originally Posted by trout_thumper21

Buy from AD and avoid being way under water like many who paid crazy premiums at the height of the market.

Not really the case these days..... Many models are now under retail.Your point is also reletive to someone's income. What puts one person underwater doesn't for someone else........they may also want that model that requires a spend before you're considered. The grey price may be lower than playing the ad games for that specific model.

[NAUI1982]

Originally Posted by JRell

Never grey, only AD. Would never trust it is real and not a dime over retail, especially now.

As I understand it, and it looks to be true. The PM editions are in most cases, less money with a TD (Grey Dealer) than with an AD.

The trust one I hear a lot. How well do the TDs actually verify/authenticate the watches they're selling. I'm so afraid of getting a superclone! or one that has been frankensteined! mixing genuine and replicate parts!

So, that brings up another question... I think I'll post it to the top of the thread and see what people say.

If you've bought from a TD (Grey Market), have you ever received a fake watch and had to return it or get stuck with the loss?

[NAUI1982]

[QUOTE=NAUI1982;13348119]Hey fellow watch enthusiasts,

This brings me to my big questions for all seasoned Rolex aficionados:

1. What are the real, tangible benefits of having your Rolex registered in your name or buying from an AD solely?
2. Is the AD experience worth the potential extra wait times?
3. For those who have gone Grey, how do you verify the watch is authentic, or is it just on the word of the grey dealer?
4. Should Rolex blacklist dealers that sell to flippers? Shouldn't they protect the sanctity of ownership?
5. Why do you think Rolex hasn’t cracked down harder on the Grey Market? Should they?

Another Question for the group:

If you've bought from a TD (Grey Market), have you ever received a fake watch and had to return it or get stuck with the loss?

[amphr1]

What are the real, tangible benefits of having your Rolex registered in your name?

None afaik

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[NAUI1982]

Originally Posted by amphr1

What are the real, tangible benefits of having your Rolex registered in your name?

None afaik

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I've been wondering this exactly! I just don't know if there is any. I guess maybe when it comes to getting it serviced at an RSC, they know it matches from original buyer to the person submitting for repair. But, that doesn't mean much right? They're going to service it anyway!

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by NAUI1982

I've been wondering this exactly! I just don't know if there is any. I guess maybe when it comes to getting it serviced at an RSC, they know it matches from original buyer to the person submitting for repair. But, that doesn't mean much right? They're going to service it anyway!

The topic never even came up when I took it in for service. Mine is out of warranty 2018. But I don't think it matters at all.

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[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by BraveBold

What they should do is move fully to quartz or digital and build in obsolescence. Will ensure only “real” tool watch buyers spend $10k on a timepiece and suss out anyone who cares about their purchase holding value. They’ll be able to keep prices steady or even cut prices over time.

Brilliant idea!

Just not until I get the Daytona I’m on the waiting list for. Gotta flip that first so I can pay my bills

[Rolexforthewin]

Never have and never will buy a Rolex on the aftermarket. It’s a luxury item, not a necessity. Rolex are barely worth the value at retail.

[NAUI1982]

Would you buy a Rolex if you found a watch you wanted but for less than retail but you had to buy it from a grey dealer?

[Halifax Daytona UK]

Personally if the AD has a watch I want and so does a Grey , I will buy from whoever is cheapest.