BMW 5-Series

[Ed Rooney]

Anyone have one? Thoughts?

I have 2 small kids (5 and 7) and I usually only have 1 with me, or I'm commuting, so I could do with either a 3 or a 5-series, but would prefer a hair more room. Both are in backless boosters right now and the seats don't really fit properly in the 3.

Engines - I've driven the 335/535's extensively, and they are great. I've driven a 328i in automatic transmission and it was miserable. Are the normally aspirated engines tolerable in manual transmission?

[RolexCat]

Hello. I have a 2007 328 Auto. Mine is pretty quick in DS mode, and handles like a dream. The Man 328s are a favorite among BMW fans, and makes a great car. Yeah i like the room in the 5 much better, but a 3er handles better in the turns. The 528 will be slower then a 328, due to weight wise. Also the 335 and 535s have some problems with the fuel pumps, and have to replaced. I wished BMW would bring back the 330, which i would order after my lease is over. If you also look at the 1/4 mile times of the 328, and the 300 hp CTS, they are almost the same. So i belive the 328 has more HP then the 230 hp listed. I have had my 328 2 years now, and i will be getting another one next March. I have had faster cars, but im very happy with the 328. Ron

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Anyone have one? Thoughts?

I have 2 small kids (5 and 7) and I usually only have 1 with me, or I'm commuting, so I could do with either a 3 or a 5-series, but would prefer a hair more room. Both are in backless boosters right now and the seats don't really fit properly in the 3.

Engines - I've driven the 335/535's extensively, and they are great. I've driven a 328i in automatic transmission and it was miserable. Are the normally aspirated engines tolerable in manual transmission?

Get the twin turbos.

[R1@160@alltimes]

Being that you have 2 little ones, the 5 series might be a better fit with more cabin/trunk space. If I was getting one, I'd opt for the 3.5L variant with turbo.

Good luck

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by R1@160@alltimes

Being that you have 2 little ones, the 5 series might be a better fit with more cabin/trunk space. If I was getting one, I'd opt for the 3.5L variant with turbo.

Good luck

3.0L with twin turbos.

[R1@160@alltimes]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

3.0L with twin turbos.

It is 3.0L?

[Welshwatchman]

I can heartily recommend the 535d estate.

Endless acceleration and a pretty damn good loading area with decent room in the rear for 3 passengers.

As will all RWD cars it was no good for us in winter once we moved to a more mountainous area otherwise I'd still probably have it.

It did also bring me 6 points on my driving licence.

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by R1@160@alltimes

It is 3.0L?

Yes sir. 5ers only come in 3.0, 4.8, or 5.0L. Thats it unless I'm mistaken.

[Ed Rooney]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I can heartily recommend the 535d estate.

Endless acceleration and a pretty damn good loading area with decent room in the rear for 3 passengers.

As will all RWD cars it was no good for us in winter once we moved to a more mountainous area otherwise I'd still probably have it.

It did also bring me 6 points on my driving licence.

Diesel is still an iffy proposition here in the States. Most of our large trucks are diesel, so ANY diesel drivers end up paying the "road tax" that supports our interstate system.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Diesel is still an iffy proposition here in the States. Most of our large trucks are diesel, so ANY diesel drivers end up paying the "road tax" that supports our interstate system.

I did not know that, Ed.

Such a shame because the 535d trounces the 535i petrol version.

[Timber Loftis]

I thought that all fuel, gas or diesel, was subject to a road tax. In fact, isn't roughly 40% of your at-the-pump cost for gas all just taxes?

Anyway, I had a new '09 5 series with all the bells and whistles as a loaner for almost a month while BMW was figuring out how to fix a water leak in my wife's X3. She loved it.

Personally, I prefer my older style cabin -- the interface for all the GPS and crap is too fiddly to operate. What especially sucks is having to use that stupid wheel thingy to find a radio station.

Also, on the new models, you can't even hear the turn signals. I kept double-checking to make sure I had properly engaged the blinkers. Unerving.

Ok, now I'm soundling like an old fogey. The car had power forever, all you could want, had a ton of room, was super attractive. My 2 yr old misses it the most and still asks about the silver car.

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Diesel is still an iffy proposition here in the States. Most of our large trucks are diesel, so ANY diesel drivers end up paying the "road tax" that supports our interstate system.

I beg to differ. Diesel is cheaper than low grade where I live.

I get far better fuel economy too. Diesels are the short term answer, IMHO.

Having said all that - consider the 335d. It has so much power that BMW "neutered" it with a taller rear drive ratio. It gets stellar mileage and it performs.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I did not know that, Ed.

Such a shame because the 535d trounces the 535i petrol version.

Not true. However, both can be modded quite extensively.


Stock 535i engine:

According to BMW, the N54B30 produces 306 hp (228 kW) and 295 ft·lbf/400 N·m. Third party testing has revealed the engine is significantly underrated, producing 332 hp (248 kW) and 311 ft·lbf/422 N·m


Stock 535d engine:

M57TU2D30-TOP: 286 PS (210 kW; 282 hp), 580 N·m (430 lb·ft)




I have had a 2006 530i for about 4.5 years. Zero problems, it's fantastic.


FYI though, the new body style (F10) is coming out next fall (2010). So... if you buy the current car (E60) you're buying it in its last year.

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Stock 535i engine:
311 ft·lbf/422 N·m

Stock 535d engine:
580 N·m (430 lb·ft)

That's a ~120 delta in torque that is needed to move that heavy 5 series. Having driven both I concur that the 535d "trounces" the 535i around town.

I simple rear drive gear swap makes a dramatic improvement in off the line performance with either the 535d or the 335d. I'm awaiting a gearset from my differential builder to test the differences in the 335d.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

I beg to differ. Diesel is cheaper than low grade where I live.

I get far better fuel economy too. Diesels are the short term answer, IMHO.

Having said all that - consider the 335d. It has so much power that BMW "neutered" it with a taller rear drive ratio. It gets stellar mileage and it performs.

Car and Driver covered the 335d and calculated how long it would take to recoup the extra cost of the car. I too believe in diesel, but the premium is quite staggering. The 335d "as-tested" price was $55,000 USD. It would take 960,000 miles of driving in a 328i to recoup the extra cost. It would take 193,333 miles of driving in a 335i to recoup the extra cost.


Outlined in this .pdf.


http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cfb884a66d.pdf

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

That's a ~120 delta in torque that is needed to move that heavy 5 series. Having driven both I concur that the 535d "trounces" the 535i around town.

I simple rear drive gear swap makes a dramatic improvement in off the line performance with either the 535d or the 335d. I'm awaiting a gearset from my differential builder to test the differences in the 335d.

Funny - that "heavy 5 series" is only 67 lbs heavier than a 3 series when equipped with an inline 6. BMW put an all-aluminum front end on it to keep the 50/50 weight ratio.

EDIT -

335i = 3593 lbs.
535i = 3660 lbs.
335d = 3825 lbs. *PORKER*


I have no doubt that the torque feels really great, but the test data just doesn't warrant using the word "trounce". The point is moot in the US... you can't get the diesel in a 5 series.

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Car and Driver covered the 335d and calculated how long it would take to recoup the extra cost of the car. I too believe in diesel, but the premium is quite staggering. The 335d "as-tested" price was $55,000 USD. It would take 960,000 miles of driving in a 328i to recoup the extra cost. It would take 193,333 miles of driving in a 335i to recoup the extra cost.


Outlined in this .pdf.


http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cfb884a66d.pdf

Diesels are "taxed" in the US currently because of our poor quality fuels. Diesel manufacturers have to equip US bound diesel cars with extra emissions equipment to deal with our extra sulphur content and lower cetane rating. This, combined with high demand and low supply has driven the premium on diesel equipped Mercedes, BMW, and Volkswagens up.

My local dealers cannot keep diesels in stock. I own two

[RedBaronF2001]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Funny - that "heavy 5 series" is only 50 lbs heavier than a 3 series when equipped with an inline 6. BMW put an all-aluminum front end on it to keep the 50/50 weight ratio.


I have no doubt that the torque feels really great, but the test data just doesn't warrant using the word "trounce". The point is moot in the US... you can't get the diesel in a 5 series.

Point noted.

Okay, so the 328 vs 528 is only a 130lb difference.

The only 5s I'm used to in my shop are M5s and they tip my scales at over 4200 lbs with fuel. That's a heavy beast!

The 335s I see often are only 3600 lbs with fuel.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

Point noted.

Okay, so the 328 vs 528 is only a 130lb difference.

The only 5s I'm used to in my shop are M5s and they tip my scales at over 4200 lbs with fuel. That's a heavy beast!

The 335s I see often are only 3600 lbs with fuel.

Yeah, for some reason the 328i is far lighter than the 335i. Possibly due to that model being fairly stripped down I think.


I agree with your observations though - the big displacement engines really weigh a lot more. So do the diesel engines. You're also carrying around 5.4 gallons of urea (AdBlue) - the additive that lets the diesel pass 50 state emissions.


The manual for my 530i from 2006 says its curb weight is 3472 lbs. That's with all the operating fluids and fuel!

Regardless, I only wanted to demonstrate that the differences are small.

[R1@160@alltimes]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

Yes sir. 5ers only come in 3.0, 4.8, or 5.0L. Thats it unless I'm mistaken.

and I thought I knew cars Thanks Bruno

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Brunotheboxer

Yes sir. 5ers only come in 3.0, 4.8, or 5.0L. Thats it unless I'm mistaken.

You are correct that the 335i and 535i cars are 3.0L (twin) turbo, and your statement is correct about displacements for the US market.

Internationally, a ton of other displacements and configurations exist.


Also, the US nomenclature is a little off. The engine in the 335d is a 3.0L, and when so equipped, the same car with that engine in non-US markets is the 330d.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Anyone have one? Thoughts?

Are the normally aspirated engines tolerable in manual transmission?

Yes, my 530i (258 hp) is quite good with the 6 speed manual. However, I believe the 328i/528i is only rated at 230 hp.


Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find a manual car to test drive.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Not true. However, both can be modded quite extensively.


Stock 535i engine:

According to BMW, the N54B30 produces 306 hp (228 kW) and 295 ft·lbf/400 N·m. Third party testing has revealed the engine is significantly underrated, producing 332 hp (248 kW) and 311 ft·lbf/422 N·m


Stock 535d engine:

M57TU2D30-TOP: 286 PS (210 kW; 282 hp), 580 N·m (430 lb·ft)




I have had a 2006 530i for about 4.5 years. Zero problems, it's fantastic.


FYI though, the new body style (F10) is coming out next fall (2010). So... if you buy the current car (E60) you're buying it in its last year.

Nope.

I owned the 535d for 2 years and had the 535i as a loan car for 10 days whilst mine was in the bodyshop as a result of a lorry drivers lack of reversing skills.

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

That's a ~120 delta in torque that is needed to move that heavy 5 series. Having driven both I concur that the 535d "trounces" the 535i around town.

I simple rear drive gear swap makes a dramatic improvement in off the line performance with either the 535d or the 335d. I'm awaiting a gearset from my differential builder to test the differences in the 335d.

You said it dude.

It's all about the torque.

I live in a hilly area, even the dual carriageways and motorways have sharp inclines. The difference was absolutely enormous all the way up to 80mph. Above that the petrol engine probably comes into it's own but that's fairly irrelevant.

[vh_bu98]

I had the 335i sedan as a loaner this pass weekend and that car is fun to drive. I was up to 80 MPH within seconds without even knowing it. If you need the extra space, go with the 535i. I would recommend the M3 or M5, but those are not practical at all.

The only concern is that you may want to upgrade the oil cooler system since the turbos get hot. Something to consider if you want to upgrade the software to unleash the additional horses.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by RolexCat

...I wished BMW would bring back the 330, which i would order after my lease is over....

Agreed. It is a sweet engine. I did a lot of research before I bought mine. I wasn't looking for a race car, so I got a 2005 530. The engine is incredible smooth and plenty of power there for me. I was going to buy a 328 or 335, but the road noise was to much for me. The 530 was better than the newer 328, but not as fast as the 335. I have read numerous posting however about 335 maintenance cost, longevity, etc. I'm not a big fan of turbos.

Bottom line, I'd buy my 530 again and again. Fits people easy, quiet on the inside, louder with windows down, plenty of power to drive around crappy drivers.

[mikefrmnj]

Get the 550- a beast. Maybe more than you need. But fast, man!

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by mfer

Agreed. It is a sweet engine. I did a lot of research before I bought mine. I wasn't looking for a race car, so I got a 2005 530. The engine is incredible smooth and plenty of power there for me. I was going to buy a 328 or 335, but the road noise was to much for me. The 530 was better than the newer 328, but not as fast as the 335. I have read numerous posting however about 335 maintenance cost, longevity, etc. I'm not a big fan of turbos.

Bottom line, I'd buy my 530 again and again. Fits people easy, quiet on the inside, louder with windows down, plenty of power to drive around crappy drivers.

Yeah, I have driven the 2005 530i. Nice car and engine. That is rated at 225hp correct? Car and Driver tested its 0-60 at 6.7 seconds. I think the new 528i @ 230hp is probably very similar (BMW claims 6.5 sec), but I haven't driven one. In 2006 and 2007, the 530i had a bit more hp (258), but that configuration is no longer available in the US.

I felt the same way you did when I ordered my car - I didn't need a racer, just "enough" power. My car corners @ .90g, and does a low 6.something second 0-60. Top speed in excess of 150. Smooth smooth smooth.

[Brunotheboxer]

Originally Posted by TheDude

You are correct that the 335i and 535i cars are 3.0L (twin) turbo, and your statement is correct about displacements for the US market.

Internationally, a ton of other displacements and configurations exist.


Also, the US nomenclature is a little off. The engine in the 335d is a 3.0L, and when so equipped, the same car with that engine in non-US markets is the 330d.

To my understanding the engine block is the same. The difference lies in the turbos, with the 330d having a single turbo, while the 335d has a sequential twin turbo. The end result is that the 335d is a bit more powerful and should experience less turbo lag.

Originally Posted by R1@160@alltimes

and I thought I knew cars Thanks Bruno

You do know alot about cars. BMW just confuses everybody.

Originally Posted by RolexCat

I wished BMW would bring back the 330, which i would order after my lease is over.

You know what, I bought my e90 330 when the car first came out and I have loved it since the day I got it. Its a fantastic daily driver.
When the new 335 came out about two years later I was ready to dump my car and get a new one but then there were tons of problems with the HPFP's so I balked. Now I'm starting to research what I will get next but my car only has about 33,000 miles on it.

[INXTCY]

if u need the space, go with the 750Li. the V8 & 360 horses will supply you ample power & torque. surprisingly for a car that size, it picks up very fast & gas mileage is pretty good.
the best thing is BMW NA is offering unbelievable 0.9% financing for 3 yrs for 2006 model & 3.9 for 2007. u can get an 06 750Li fully loaded for around 43k to 46k with very low miles.

[asindhidude]

I honesty think a stripped down, 328i is the purest driver's car of the bunch.