Long complicated trade to a $95 Rolex Sub. Really.

[Rscmaine]

Originally Posted by rerubin

That is definitely one way to look at it. Using the same logic, one could defend all sorts of deceptive practices, it seems to me. It is not a question of looking out for one's fellow man so much as looking out for one's own integrity, which to many is worth much more than anything one can gain from the type of transaction you described.

What was I supposed to do???

Say " Don't do this deal with me because I am going to be in a better place than you?????"

Say "Dude, watch out, I am ahead here by a couple of thou..."

Say "Sorry, I cant trade with you because I'm going to PROFIT from this deal"???????????


Sorry, but this is the basis of all business - otherwise we all just share the wealth.

[Rscmaine]

And I sell it for $300,000. Should I disclose to the buyer that my cost was zero, just to be fair to him?

I make a profit...I make a profit. He's happy...he's happy. What's the beef?

[rerubin]

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

Someone contacts you with an "old beat up Rolex 1680" that looks like crap and they just want to get rid of it (worth $6,000 to anyone who knows Rolexes). They see your 2 year old Rolex Explorer (worth $3500) and want to trade even. They are absolutely thrilled with the prospect of having a new Rolex and tell you how much they want your new shiny watch for their old scratched tired one.

Their old beater for your new shiny lovely watch.

What do you do?

In my world, they own a new shiny Explorer. And they are happy. And I am happy.

And the world turns happily.

The right thing to do -- just my opinion again, of course -- is to tell the person how much their old watch is worth, and perhaps direct him or her to where they might sell it, using the money to buy a new or newer Rolex.

If you were a knowledgable coin dealer and someone came in wanting to swap an "old beat up" indian head penny that happens to be worth a lot for a new proof-struck penny, you would refuse to do it. Or else anyone who found out in the coin world would no longer deal with you.

I called my pool man recently because the heater for my pool was not switching off properly. He said over the phone that it was probably the thermostat. So he ordered a new one and came over with it. But he found that the solenoid on the old thermostat just needed to be replaced, and that is what he did. Cost me $25 instead of $200. Now he could have relied on me to do my own "due diligence" and simply replaced the thermostat. No one would have been the wiser in this case. Except him, and it mattered to him to do the right thing.

Just a different philosophy.

[Rscmaine]

The right thing to do -- just my opinion again, of course -- is to tell the person how much their old watch is worth, and perhaps direct him or her to where they might sell it, using the money to buy a new or newer Rolex.


How loudly can I type this? HE WAS A JEWELER!!!

I'm an insurance agent. Who was responsible for knowing what the deal was?

[jaustindds]

A watch is worth whatever someone will pay for it. If the pawn shop guy says it's worth that and he is willing to deal on it, then that's what it's worth.

[Brit78]

Nice work!

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

Long and insanely profitable trade process -

Took a $1200 80's vintage DJ TT - slapped a diamond dial on it for $95 and a 3 carat diamond bezel I got for $1000 - so total in the watch was $2600 -

Wearing it in Bangor Maine in a pawn/check cashing joint - owner says "Why, That's a $30,000 watch!!!" Not wishing to be contrary or argumentative, I said, "Thank you" and traded it on the spot for a nice black sub with box and papers and a 16613 TT head.

Those went to a trade for a unique Day Date 18078 with aftermarket 1ct diamond bezel and dial.

I removed the bezel and dial and sold them for $500 and put on the correct bezel for $300.

Hard business year this year - so I sold the bracelet for $2000

And just traded the head for a Z serial 16610 Black sub.

By my math I now own a 2 year old Black no holes sub with the full kit (card, box tags, orig receipt, etc) for around $95 of my dollars.

$1200 - Datejust
$95 - Dial
$1000 - Bezel

$2295

Trade for 2 subs - and trade for 18078 $0

Net + $200 on bezel dial swap.

So now I'm at $2095

Sold Bracelet for $2000

Traded 18078 head on strap for Z serial 16610.

Total current investment $95.

And here, folks, is what a $95 Rolex Submariner looks like.

Now if you can manage to flip this Z sub for $3950 , you can really write a " How To turn $95.00 into $3950 " Book and make a bundle


Congrats my friend !

[B. Doggy]

Whoa.

[Rscmaine]

Now if you can manage to flip this Z sub for $3950 , you can really write a " How To turn $95.00 into $3950 " Book and make a bundle


Congrats my friend !

They are listing from dealers at $4500+ \

This is the last black sub ever made without the incessant RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR on the dial.

For those of us who eschew advertising for people to whom we have already given money ( I blow dry off the stickers from my car - unless the dealer will pay $50/month to advertise on the back of my car...none have yet agreed).

The only reasons to submit to the RRR rehaut are:

1) You absolutely must have a brand new Rolex.

2) See 1) above AND you wont buy a non engraved rehaut to replace the advertising.

3) You MUST have a new Yachtmaster (meaning, of course, that you don't care what time it is, as the watch is illegible...)

4) It was a gift. (which you can't sell if you still want sex with your current wife)

5) You actually care whether strangers can identify your watch as a "Rolex".

6) "5", buy a fake.

[therolexguy]

to this thread so I will just say:

[STEELINOX]

Outstanding !

[Rscmaine]

Originally Posted by therolexguy

to this thread so I will just say:

The point of the thread was what a good deal I did - it, instead, became a moral discussion about our obligations to instruct the uninformed.

Sorry about that.

[Speed]

I've just been sitting this one out. Will continue to do so. Carry on

[rerubin]

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

The point of the thread was what a good deal I did - it, instead, became a moral discussion about our obligations to instruct the uninformed.

Sorry about that.

I do believe the "point of the thread" is to a certain extent up to its contributors, since this is a general Rolex discussion area.

And you continue to miss my point, but that is fine. If you think you "did" a good deal, that is entirely up to you. If someone disagrees with how you did it, that is fine as well. No hijacking involved.

[therolexguy]

"Speed" you look very familiar..... Were you someone else in another life?

[STEELINOX]

Originally Posted by therolexguy

"Speed" you look very familiar..... Were you someone else in another life?

yeah, he was "Raguman" !

[JJ Irani]

And to the OP all I say is.......well done, now please get rid of that gawd awful avatar with that bastardized DJ and replace it with your beautiful new Sub!!

Cheers - JJ

[Speed]

Originally Posted by STEELINOX

yeah, he was "Raguman" !

Shhh

HAHAHAHAHA

[novae500]

A watch is worth whatever someone will pay for it. If the pawn shop guy says it's worth that and he is willing to deal on it, then that's what it's worth.

you win some, you lose some.. looks like in this case, the OP won....

i don't see the service guy at the stealership give me or anyone a break when i take my car in for stuff i can't do myself...

[SCD]

Originally Posted by jclevoy

Are we bound by making sure that the other person is making a smart move in a transaction?

Yep.

[CoopJr]

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

But I do have 2 good buddies who own and run Pawn shops - in all fairness, the do provide a service to the lowest 10% of our society which really does make a difference.

Many years ago I broke my neck and spent 18 months in a metal neck brace. I pawned the same Rolex SD at least 10 times for a week here and there to pay my oil bill or buy groceries for my family - it allowed me to float that last 6 days between disability checks.

Most of the folks running pawn shops are Shylock level bastards, but for my money the guy who advanced me same day cash over 8 months of financial hell saved my house and my family.

He is a good friend to this day.

I find this to be a better story than the sub trade...real life stuff.

[dukester]

Am I the only one confused?? I don't get the trade story

Either way, a beautiful SUB - Enjoy it in good health!

[JimC]

I can't keep up, but it certainly seems you worked a deal. All the way through! Congrats!

[Rscmaine]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

And to the OP all I say is.......well done, now please get rid of that gawd awful avatar with that bastardized DJ and replace it with your beautiful new Sub!!

Cheers - JJ

[SLS]

The OP states that he informed the PS owner that the dial and bezel were aftermarket, which to me is correct thing to do. Pawnshops have a computer program that they can enter in the item to see what amount they should give to the customer if they are going to pawn the item or just outright sell it. They also use eBay as a gauge to see what items are selling for and then they know what to offer. If the PS owner did not do this, it is his own fault and he made a bad buy. Trust me PS owners have plenty of info at their fingertips.
Scott

[Kokyuryoku]

Wow, what a read.

Originally Posted by rerubin

All good points, to be sure. But the man remarked that it was a $30K watch and the seller well knew that it wasn't. Seems to me that should have been mentioned, but that's just my opinion of course. Don't think it was dishonest, but the deal did take advantage of someone's ignorance in a very big way.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

This trade chain worked like a charm - but over the years I've been snookered for a few hundred here and there, as have we all. I have luckily avoided a major scam or thousands lost, but no tree grows in a straight line.

Getting to the point where you can tell at a glance what a watch is worth is time consuming and sometimes a costly learning experience.

How many people here would gladly pay $2,000 for a 3 month class which would teach them everything they need to know about watch values, trading, selling, identifying crooks etc etc etc???

Well there is no such class except the school of hard knocks. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

You live and learn, or you don't live long.

There are classes actually, run by John Brozek and no, I wouldn't pay $2000 to go to one of them.

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

Maybe your buyer had one of his customer's in-mind already who might like it and buy it... and who knows what HE was going to sell it for to one of HIS customers anyway???

I visited his shop a week later to deliver the original dial, and he thanked me.
6 months later I went in wearing the Day Date and he (wearing the diamond encrusted DJ) sheepishly asked if I still had his old TT sub...

Seems he missed it.

The guy was 55 years old, and I felt no remorse whatsoever.

He's probably since realized that he was duped.

Originally Posted by rerubin

So two wrongs make a right? Kid stuff, really.

Exactly. Unfortunately this is not a common belief in this day and age. Sad really.

Originally Posted by rerubin

I think my previous posts made it clear what the issue is. Just don't think making hay at someone else's expense is the way to go, whether a pawnshop owner or anyone else.

There is the idea of being fair and straightforward in business just because it is the right thing to do. No other reason. Except maybe Karma.

Words to live by.

Originally Posted by rerubin

That is definitely one way to look at it. Using the same logic, one could defend all sorts of deceptive practices, it seems to me. It is not a question of looking out for one's fellow man so much as looking out for one's own integrity, which to many is worth much more than anything one can gain from the type of transaction you described.

Yep especially when considering future business.

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

In my world, they own a new shiny Explorer. And they are happy. And I am happy.

And the world turns happily.

Until they realized that they were duped.

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

How loudly can I type this? HE WAS A JEWELER!!!

I'm an insurance agent. Who was responsible for knowing what the deal was?

You don't happen to be a used car salesman too, do you?

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

For those of us who eschew advertising for people to whom we have already given money ( I blow dry off the stickers from my car - unless the dealer will pay $50/month to advertise on the back of my car...none have yet agreed).

The only reasons to submit to the RRR rehaut are:

1) You absolutely must have a brand new Rolex.

2) See 1) above AND you wont buy a non engraved rehaut to replace the advertising.

3) You MUST have a new Yachtmaster (meaning, of course, that you don't care what time it is, as the watch is illegible...)

4) It was a gift. (which you can't sell if you still want sex with your current wife)

5) You actually care whether strangers can identify your watch as a "Rolex".

6) "5", buy a fake.

This I don't even understand

Originally Posted by Rscmaine

The point of the thread was what a good deal I did - it, instead, became a moral discussion about our obligations to instruct the uninformed.

Sorry about that.

A good deal for you, right?

[rolexsubdate]

"And not wishing to be entirely forthcoming, either, it seems."

You said it all in the above statement .....

You did not do a good deal my friend...a good deal is an honest deal .... this was not an honest deal .... next time you advertise something for sale, it should go into the "Watchout" section ....your story stinks worse than dead fish on the beach.....and if you can dupe some innocent guy, maybe you can dupe us here at TRF also .....

[BASSETHOUNDS]

Originally Posted by rerubin

That's a $30,000 watch!!!" Not wishing to be contrary or argumentative, I said, "Thank you"

And not wishing to be entirely forthcoming, either, it seems.

Sure , if you want ... but who started it first ? Poor pawn broker , sure he is all charity when some grandma wants pawn her wedding ring to pay the heating bill . Jesus , some want to more catholic then the pope here .

[sea-dweller]

Wow !!!

[rolexsubdate]

Originally Posted by BASSETHOUNDS

Sure , if you want ... but who started it first ? Poor pawn broker , sure he is all charity when some grandma wants pawn her wedding ring to pay the heating bill . Jesus , some want to more catholic then the pope here .

We are all humans here and we all want to make a profit but not by mileading or misdirection ..... you wanna tell the buyer exactly what you have to sell and if the buyer wants to pay you a million bucks, sure go ahead and take it .... this was clearly not done here .... this was cheating ..... nothing clean about it ...... now if the OP even sells a genuine item, as is from factory, in the back of my head, there will always remain that doubt "I wonder what the F he did to this watch ???"