gmt stick dial?

[ddrrock]

i am looking at a rolex m serial # stick dial. what should the model # be? also were all the m sries the new movement? i was told they were but i see on youtube that some m series might not be new movement is this true? i only want the stick dial with new movement thanks for the help everyone
d

[sakuraba]

It should be a 16710 just like the others. The stick dial is just a font variation.

Not all M serials have the 3186 movement. Without opening the watch, you can tell by either the "wiggle test", or the "8 jumps to 1 turn" test.

[ddrrock]

whats that test thanks

[Casey VP-26]

I was under the opinion that all the 16710's M serial number did have the 3186 movement. Correct me if I am wrong . Thank You

[sakuraba]

Originally Posted by ddrrock

whats that test thanks

If you pull out the crown to the first notch, the hour hand will jump at 1 hour increments.

On 3186 movements, one full turn of the crown will cause the hour to jump 8 times. On 3185 movements, it will only jump 5 times.

Hope this helps.

[ParisDakarBmw]

Great info!

[HL65]

All M's actually do have the 3186 on the GMTll--and some of the late Z's also.

[ddrrock]

some people say all the m series have new movement and some peole say not true

[ddrrock]

i dont wanna over pay for a gmt unless it has the new movement. regular gmt's are so cheap these days

[Tools]

Originally Posted by ddrrock

i dont wanna over pay for a gmt unless it has the new movement. regular gmt's are so cheap these days

... If you pay anything extra for a 3186 movement, then you are overpaying... There is nothing historically to make one expect that either the stick dial, or a 3186 movement will result in a collectors premium in the long run..

The Z and the M serial overlap quite a bit....They do not stop one serial completely when they start another; so I would never say that "all M's have them"... not unless I had sampled "all M's".

Here is something I think may be happening... I think that some sellers are taking out early 3186 movements from the last 5 years of GMT ceramic models (they all have them), and switching them out with late 16710's and charging a "premium".. Either that, or there is actually a boat-load of the things..... they seem to be popping up everywhere...

[ddrrock]

is the 3186 movement a better watch? i dont really care if its a collector because none of us will live to see that day but i was just wondering isnt it a better watch in the long run with the new movement?
the one i am looking at is like new never worn coke bezel stick dial.
i dont see many around for sale

[Tools]

Originally Posted by ddrrock

is the 3186 movement a better watch? i dont really care if its a collector because none of us will live to see that day but i was just wondering isnt it a better watch in the long run with the new movement?
the one i am looking at is like new never worn coke bezel stick dial.
i dont see many around for sale

Better is a very subjective term.... The only change from the 3185 to the 3186 is a move of the jump hour detent gears, a different hairspring, and the thicker plates and screws to be able to do this....(moving the detent gears required more space, and so the movement is slightly thicker). Functionally though, they are still identical to one another.....

Here is my personal "stick dial" GMT Master II.. It runs at +1.5 seconds daily...does it really matter if it has a 3185 or a 3186 ??? I leave that up to the individual......

[ddrrock]

just wondering

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Tools

... If you pay anything extra for a 3186 movement, then you are overpaying... There is nothing historically to make one expect that either the stick dial, or a 3186 movement will result in a collectors premium in the long run..

The Z and the M serial overlap quite a bit....They do not stop one serial completely when they start another; so I would never say that "all M's have them"... not unless I had sampled "all M's".

Here is something I think may be happening... I think that some sellers are taking out early 3186 movements from the last 5 years of GMT ceramic models (they all have them), and switching them out with late 16710's and charging a "premium".. Either that, or there is actually a boat-load of the things..... they seem to be popping up everywhere...

Have to agree Larry and hardly a new movement just a slightly modded 3185 into a 3186 and the stick dial fiasco makes me smile.And question is one movement better than the other.Well the 3185 has been well tested for 20 odd years.Perhaps the 3186 has slightly better second time zone setting,but is one better than the other
I would doubt it.

Originally Posted by ddrrock

i dont wanna over pay for a gmt unless it has the new movement. regular gmt's are so cheap these days

Please could you direct me to the source of these cheap regular GMTs I would like to buy a few.

[ayres]

keep in mind that the stick (ll) gmt2 dial and those gmt2s containing 3186 movements are two separate phenomena. some d-serials have the stick dial. if i'm not mistaken, such inconsistencies arose from rolex unevenly taking inventory from different factories.

[ayres]

Originally Posted by Tools

Here is something I think may be happening... I think that some sellers are taking out early 3186 movements from the last 5 years of GMT ceramic models (they all have them), and switching them out with late 16710's and charging a "premium".. Either that, or there is actually a boat-load of the things..... they seem to be popping up everywhere...

larry, that's an interesting and frightening thought... so i must ask, do you have any evidence of that happening? or, lol, is this just your obvious conclusion of what some will do to make a buck?

and... what's being placed in the 116710 cases? would a 3185 operate the new gmt2cs?

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by Tools

... If you pay anything extra for a 3186 movement, then you are overpaying... There is nothing historically to make one expect that either the stick dial, or a 3186 movement will result in a collectors premium in the long run..

The Z and the M serial overlap quite a bit....They do not stop one serial completely when they start another; so I would never say that "all M's have them"... not unless I had sampled "all M's".

Here is something I think may be happening... I think that some sellers are taking out early 3186 movements from the last 5 years of GMT ceramic models (they all have them), and switching them out with late 16710's and charging a "premium".. Either that, or there is actually a boat-load of the things..... they seem to be popping up everywhere...

Well said Larry. Don't waste you money, buy the so called "cheap" one now if you want a classic GMT. The people who overpaid for a watch just because they got sucked in the some bs internet hype, will never see the premium they paid back if they decide to sell decades down the road.

The 3185 is a time proven movement, one of Rolex's best ever, and that is a fact.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by ayres

larry, that's an interesting and frightening thought... so i must ask, do you have any evidence of that happening? or, lol, is this just your obvious conclusion of what some will do to make a buck?

and... what's being placed in the 116710 cases? would a 3185 operate the new gmt2cs?

Lets face it, there are people out there that will do anything to make a buck. The Explorer II's also have the 3186, it would be so simple to swap out the movement for a early Z serial GMT II to make some extra cash. I guarantee that this has happened, and I have had some suspicions already on various forums.

[train-time]

Don't be fooled by the hype that the stick dial is rare or as they call it, the "error dial." As others have said, it's just a variation. I have it on a D series GMT Coke that's all original, so it's been around for a while.

[HL65]

Well--it took only about 6 weeks for another 3185 vs. 3186 post...Been a while--let's see where this one ends up.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Well said Larry. Don't waste you money, buy the so called "cheap" one now if you want a classic GMT. The people who overpaid for a watch just because they got sucked in the some bs internet hype, will never see the premium they paid back if they decide to sell decades down the road.

The 3185 is a time proven movement, one of Rolex's best ever, and that is a fact.

Yes the Internet is full of Rolex hype and quite a lot of Rolex bullsh#te as well.Many Rolex myth's around purely generated to extract as much cash from the unsuspected unknowable punter as possible.

[HL65]

That is all great stuff except opinions are subjective to one's own view points and the market is the only validation of reality--look at what the market dictates and that is where you find the truth. Price of GMTll M w/ 3186 movement is roughly 6500--that is what it has been selling for and that is what it takes to get one if you can even find one regardless of what any of us think--not my opinion just my observation. Enough said--this topic has been ridden into the dirt one too many times--and the price has not changed as a result!

[Casey VP-26]

Question for the moderators How come when Rolex makes their new movement for the Daytona (Depending on technical definition) (Elastic or Rubber Band) . You moderators are very defensive of the movement? However in this case there seems to be no difference according to you Moderators as far as the 3185 or the 3186 movement is concerned. I believe there is a great deal of improvement in the 3186 movement and would be happy to pay a premium. Now I don't want to upset you moderators because I believe you have one hell of a hard job and I would not want it. Just Wondering. Thanks People.

[ddrrock]

ya thats what i am saying when the movement is in the daytona everyone sez its the best but when its in the gmt there like o its nothing special.
also is $6500 2 much to pay for a m series?

[HL65]

Originally Posted by ddrrock

ya thats what i am saying when the movement is in the daytona everyone sez its the best but when its in the gmt there like o its nothing special.
also is $6500 2 much to pay for a m series?

No--That is what they cost if you can even find one!! The last one I saw sold for $6495 very quickly. Again==The market bears the truth--and it is reflected in the price not in anyone's opinion--including mine!