1945 Rolex GMT Master red date

[baldwin]

Has anyone seen one of these?

[kyle L]

The GMT Master was introduced in 1954...

[Safetrends]

Originally Posted by kyle L

The GMT Master was introduced in 1954...

Kyle you are spot on today.

[mike]

Maybe boxed the numbers? Do you mean a roulette date wheel on a 6542?

[TimeToGo]

Welcome to the forum!

[kyle L]

Originally Posted by Safetrends

Kyle you are spot on today.

Thanks David, I think the Datejust was created in 1945. Here's a site about GMTS:

http://www.gmtmasterhistory.com/gmt-..._ref_6542.html

[Earl]

Originally Posted by baldwin

Has anyone seen one of these?

no and I'm thinking unless you have it sitting there in front of you you will not either.

Baldwin, take a picture and post it, this should clear up misconceptions.

vr
Earl

[Jackxv]

The serials from 1945 were re-used in 1957.
That sounds plausible for a 6542.

Even big sellers on the net (though unknowing) make this mistake.

Maybe the OP has seen the watch for sale somewhere and the date was on "red" , it is also possible the datewheel was changed out for an (aftermarket?) all red.
There is one now at VRF

To the OP : Watch out if you're buying, it can be real tricky because all parts are faked around the globe, even big time collectors can be taken.

A complete mint package will be minimum 45K , that includes radium dial, bakkelite bezel, all original hands, original roulette date, papers, boxes, bulletin de marche, and a rivet (period correct) oyster bracelet.
The movement is very service depending and not easy to source parts.


Jack

[swissautopro]

Originally Posted by Jackxv

The serials from 1945 were re-used in 1957.
That sounds plausible for a 6542.

Even big sellers on the net (though unknowing) make this mistake.

Maybe the OP has seen the watch for sale somewhere and the date was on "red" , it is also possible the datewheel was changed out for an (aftermarket?) all red.
There is one now at VRF

To the OP : Watch out if you're buying, it can be real tricky because all parts are faked around the globe, even big time collectors can be taken.

A complete mint package will be minimum 45K , that includes radium dial, bakkelite bezel, all original hands, original roulette date, papers, boxes, bulletin de marche, and a rivet (period correct) oyster bracelet.
The movement is very service depending and not easy to source parts.


Jack

I would add to what Jack said and recommend you remember you are dealing with Radium, and not Tritium. Authentic hands and dial lume will appear sort of green. This is rarely, if ever, faked.
Good luck.

[maverick]

The literature states 1954 but you would be hard pressed to find one from that date. 1955 would be the earliest but personally 1957 is the first I have seen which is about when the 6542s started showing up.

Pam Am went to Rolex in 1954 to see about a new model for their pilots who flew overseas. Rolex did not have one already for them. It took a little time to get a proto and go from there.

a. 1675 pointed crown guards--1959
b. Customer option beginning in the early 1970s
c. Original bezel colors beginning with the no crown guards 6542, ca. 1955
d) Gold 6542s available from at least 1960 maybe earlier

=) maverick

[Jackxv]

From the watch-out section

Be carefull

Originally Posted by ekeko

In March this year I bought a GMT Master model 6542 from a reputable dealer here in the England, the owner having a good reputation with 20 plus years of buying and selling Rolex, and other top marque watches. I therefore assumed that the watch was genuine apart from a redone dial which was declared and reflected in the price. In the quiet of my home I looked more closely at the case between the lugs and it was clear that it looked very much FAKEEE, to quote Orchi. Also, the serial number which indicated a I/57 date differed from the case back which was stamped III/59. Although this alone is perhaps not necessarily a negative point given how Rolex used to mix and match parts. I searched the Forum further (particularly relevant posts from Orchi, thank you sir!) and also on the web and then googled the case serial number. To my surprise and horror a web site in the USA that specialises in Rolex "replacement" parts was advertising a replacement case/back for a 6542GMT with identical case serial number and case back date as the watch in my possession. I e mailed the company querying this and this particular item has now been withdrawn from their web page. With growing serious doubts I decided to write to Rolex Geneva to ask them if they could check their records re dates/serial number and model.
I received a reply after about 4 weeks and I guess I was not surprised that the Rolex letter stated, "Unfortunately, the serial number indicated does not correspond to Rolex reference 6542".
The happy outcome is that the dealer who sold me the watch (I do believe it was in good faith) has taken it back and given me a full refund.
I am now a very much wiser person regarding vintage Rolex watches.

I could and should have made more checks before purchase. I thought that buying through a dealer would be a safe bet. In some ways it was in as much as I was able to get a full refund some two months after purchase. A purchaser via the internet may not be quite so lucky.

[basmannen]

Originally Posted by maverick

The literature states 1954 but you would be hard pressed to find one from that date. 1955 would be the earliest but personally 1957 is the first I have seen which is about when the 6542s started showing up.

Pam Am went to Rolex in 1954 to see about a new model for their pilots who flew overseas. Rolex did not have one already for them. It took a little time to get a proto and go from there.

a. 1675 pointed crown guards--1959
b. Customer option beginning in the early 1970s
c. Original bezel colors beginning with the no crown guards 6542, ca. 1955
d) Gold 6542s available from at least 1960 maybe earlier

=) maverick

--------------------------
Got a bit confused by your post :-)
a. The 1675 was produced without crown guards in 18k!
d.? I have never seen any 6542 in 18k. They do look like 6542
but are in fact 1675 I believe.

Regards
Basmannen

[maverick]

Originally Posted by basmannen

--------------------------
Got a bit confused by your post :-)
a. The 1675 was produced without crown guards in 18k!
d.? I have never seen any 6542 in 18k. They do look like 6542
but are in fact 1675 I believe.

Regards
Basmannen

Yes the 1675 came in 18kt gold and so did the 6542. Here is one (6542, 18kt) courtesy of the VRF Dial Project.

Sorry for the confusion. =) maverick
BTW, there are reports of early 1675 no crown guard 18kt GMTs, I believe with Bakelite bezels. They are rare. The pointed GMT crown guards or PCG GMTs were made in a narrow serial number range.

[greekbum]

Heres a blog with some excellent information on the 6542 GMT
http://stefanomazzariol.blogspot.com...%20ref.%206542

[baldwin]

This is the watch, the serial says around 1945 but I don't know.. I know it has an immovable submariner bezel that was put on it which is wrong. Any help would be appreciated..

[adam78]

Originally Posted by baldwin

This is the watch, the serial says around 1945 but I don't know.. I know it has an immovable submariner bezel that was put on it which is wrong. Any help would be appreciated..

There's a lot wrong with this watch besides the bezel insert. First of all, 397XXX would date the watch to about 1958 (http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html). The dial looks to have been (poorly) refinished. The 24 hour hand is incorrect for this vintage (tip should be smaller), and the hands look like luminova replacements. The bracelet is a modern solid link replacement. I'd run away from this one; too many problems and inconsistencies.

[Michael M.]

Originally Posted by kyle L

The GMT Master was introduced in 1954...

That's what I was thinking to

[Michael M.]

Originally Posted by adam78

There's a lot wrong with this watch besides the bezel insert. First of all, 397XXX would date the watch to about 1958 (http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/numbers.html). The dial looks to have been (poorly) refinished. The 24 hour hand is incorrect for this vintage (tip should be smaller), and the hands look like luminova replacements. The bracelet is a modern solid link replacement. I'd run away from this one; too many problems and inconsistencies.

I agree

[baldwin]

I can't run away from it unfortunately.. I own it. I got as a present about 20 years ago and I never did anything with it. I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion of its possible value..

[adam78]

In that case, all is not lost. You can still find the proper parts for this watch, although I personally would go the private route (e.g. contact Steve Mulholland, who contributes here; there are other sources for parts out there as well) You'd need a new bezel insert for sure (although I'd opt for a more faded, vintage looking one), another genuine dial (that would likely be the biggest expense; less if you go for a tritium service dial for a 6542), perhaps some tritium hands (and a small-tipped 24 hour hand). The bracelet, if a genuine 78360, is okay for modern usage.

It is not worth nearly as much now as it would as a pristine original (esp. if it still had its bakelite bezel insert; although the later 6542s had steel inserts as there was concern about radium exposure). It's worth something for the case and movement, and for the other parts as parts (hands, bracelet). Not much else, and I wouldn't hazard a guess.

Through all of this there hasn't been mention of the movement. I believe it should have a cal. 1065, and should probably be serviced if you intend to wear it.