Rolex Sub C vs Grand Seiko Spring Drive Divers watch

[kmleffler]

Was wondering if anyone has any experience with the Grand Seiko Spring Drive Divers Watch? The prices of the Sub C and the Grand Seiko are about the same. The Seiko's accuracy is stated as +/- 15 sec. a month and the water resistance is 200m. The Seiko is 44mm and it also has a ceramic bezel. Thanks for any input.

[padi56]

Well totally different watches the Seiko is a very fine watch but a hybrid quartz while the Rolex is purely mechanical.But both would make very good diving watches but the Rolex in general will have a better resale value if you ever wanted to sell.One of my favourite watches is the Seiko Grand now thats a superb mechanical movement.IMHO a better engineered movement than many of the Swiss high end mass produced brands.

[1000ft]

Oh wow, this might stir the pot.

I have to do a little more research on this before I can really comment.

[imono]

Didn't it take Seiko like 20 years to finally make it work right on this Grand Seiko Spring Drive?

[geronimo509]

Originally Posted by imono

Didn't it take Seiko like 20 years to finally make it work right on this Grand Seiko Spring Drive?

I have no idea how long it took, but if it did take 20 years, then at least it should be perfect.

Any pictures of the 2? preferably, next to each other

[Roxas]

Originally Posted by imono

Didn't it take Seiko like 20 years to finally make it work right on this Grand Seiko Spring Drive?

I think it's about 30 years. IMO, GS Spring Drive is superior than Rolex in every way except brand recognition and resale value.

[le_baroudeur]

The grand seiko has got electronic components, and beside its accuracy, we don't know about parts availability in the very long term... It hasn't got all the history behind the traditional escapement, and not (for me) its poetic charm. The electromagnetic braking is simplier than the traditional escapement, (but same price), and the quartz apparently can't be regulated when its frequency vary (about 30 years beyond..).. (there is apparently no trimmer in the circuitry) That's why i chose rolex.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by le_baroudeur

The grand seiko has got electronic components, and beside its accuracy, we don't know about parts availability in the very long term... It hasn't got all the history behind the traditional escapement, and not (for me) its poetic charm. The electromagnetic braking is simplier than the traditional escapement, (but same price), and the quartz apparently can't be regulated when its frequency vary (about 30 years beyond..).. That's why i chose rolex.

Well the Seiko grand most certainly can be regulated its a mechanical only movement its the Spring Drive thats part quartz, and the mechanical ones are tested to a far higher chronometer spec than the Swiss COSC.Average accuracy -2+4 seconds a day plus they guarantee service for 50 years and every one is hand assembled.Well first lets not forget why the COSC was first formed and Rolex is the largest brand to have watches tested there, so large Rolex have there own special machine there.The COSC test is now quite antiquated only bare movement is tested, and today IMHO a pure marketing ploy.As most movements today with a bit of patience and regulation could pass this test.Now the European Din standard and the Japanese equivalent for mechanical movements is to a higher standard than the Swiss COSC and both institutions test movement in the case thats going to be with the watch.

And before the Swiss COSC was formed as we all know it today there was the Observatory testing competitions to a much higher standard than todays watered down COSC test
Now during the entire 23 years of testing, 5093 wristwatches were submitted for certification, and only 3253 were passed, about 64%.Today the first time pass rate at the COSC is around 85-90%In those early days just a few manufacturers participated, and only Omega and Patek did so every year. The others were: Rolex, Zenith, Longines, Movado, Vacheron & Constantin, Ulysse Nardin, Cyma and Favre-Leuba, along with numerous independent professional watchmakers.Now that was until Seiko come on the scene and started to wipe the floor with the Swiss mechanical watch industry.Only 2 brand in the + 23 years of the competitions submitted movements of serial production for retail sale(Seiko and GP).All other brands were specially made movements just for the competition.and it was ended by the swiss in the early 1970s after two straight wins by the Japanese straight off the production line Seiko Grand.

Seiko first entered the competition,with watches from all over the world,including most of the Swiss high end brands.But for a much higher standard than the now Swiss COSC,the Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer Standard.Out of many watches summited only two passed this very strict test a Seiko Grand just off the production line model, and Giraud Peregaux a specially build for the test model.And in the late 1960s there were only two companies, who could sell watches, passed Astronomical Observatory Authorisation Chronometer in those days. ---Seiko and Giraud Peregaux.As the Japanese had dominated in the late 1960s and the two preceding events, in 1972 some Swiss watch manufacturers demanded the end of the observatory competitions,and it was ended in 1973,thats when the COSC was founded

[chrono1g]

Originally Posted by Roxas

I think it's about 30 years. IMO, GS Spring Drive is superior than Rolex in every way except brand recognition and resale value.

Absolute truth.

[slevin kelevra]

Originally Posted by Roxas
I think it's about 30 years. IMO, GS Spring Drive is superior than Rolex in every way except brand recognition and resale value.


Thats some claim. Do you or anyone else have any pics??

[chrono1g]

I sold my subc....bought a dssd....wanted another subc but went with a gssd instead. no regrets

i wish i could post some pictures, but my camera is getting serviced at the moment.

[le_baroudeur]

Padi: i agree with you. The seiko, even if it is partially mecanical, is regulared by a quartz and the frequency is subject to variations after a certain amount of time ( 30 to 40 years? ) As there does not seem to be a trimmer, the quartz will have to be replaced.. Do you think that the dozen of electronic parts in it will be available in 2050? I don't know.. Rolex will produce about the same watches, the same parts in 2050.. But will seiko produce springdrive movements in 2050?

[Frogman4me]

Spring drive diver is simply amazing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnh8ISSujxk

[le_baroudeur]

The seiko is like a rolex: high end watch. You will not have any issue with one or the other, except the parts.. But time will tell here.

[BH13GMT]

I have always fancied a Grand Seiko model, the divers model looks good and (so I have read) it is incredibly well made, on par if not better than a Rolex. What concearns me is the back up infrastructure world wide, Grand Seiko's are not marketed or sold in Europe so I would have to puchase from afar and cross my fingers on reliability. I have pinched a pic off the net for people to view

[chrono1g]

Originally Posted by BH13GMT

I have always fancied a Grand Seiko model, the divers model looks good and (so I have read) it is incredibly well made, on par if not better than a Rolex. What concearns me is the back up infrastructure world wide, Grand Seiko's are not marketed or sold in Europe so I would have to puchase from afar and cross my fingers on reliability. I have pinched a pic off the net for people to view

After owning both watches, i can say with confidence that the seiko is superior to the subc in terms of build quality.

[1000ft]

This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko. They make 30 dollar watches.. What if Porsche made a 15k compact car?

[TonyD]

From what little I know it is an amazing watch. I don't think I could ever spend that much dough on a Seiko no matter how great it is.

Remember when Honda made Acura? The first ones were Accords with a better interior. Now Acura is a real luxury brand that people know and trust.

I would have suggested that Seiko make a new brand name and start to market the higher end watches.

[BH13GMT]

Originally Posted by 1000ft

This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko.

Lets not confuse Seiko watches and Grand Seiko watches. Grand Seiko's have almost a secret following worldwide primarily only available in the far east.

I see Grand Seiko's in the same fold as owning a VW Pheaton W12 an £80,000 Volkswagen . Critically better than an A8, S Class Merc and BMW 7 series but the name of the manufacturer puts off the unitiated.

[funkyegg]

sorry, no comparison

[Dr. Robert]

Grand Seiko makes terrific watches......I have seen some in the "steel" & they are very well built, I like them...............but their dive watch is UGLY.....especially the hands.
I would get the sub, it's way better looking.,

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by 1000ft

This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko. They make 30 dollar watches.. What if Porsche made a 15k compact car?

Are you kidding me? Seiko's history is no joke, do some research before making a rediculous comment...

[1000ft]

I should, you're right. But for me and the rest of the average public, if I were given an option of a rolex and a seiko. It would be a no brainer.

[457689]

Originally Posted by 1000ft

This is a disaster! There's no pedigree in a seiko. They make 30 dollar watches.. What if Porsche made a 15k compact car?

Dude, really? I'd get in a discussion with you on that, but frankly I'm tired of entering into discussions with folks who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by 457689

Dude, really? I'd get in a debate with you on that, but frankly I'm tired of entering into discussions with folks who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

+1

I think most of us are not part of the I know nothing about watches general public

[1000ft]

Sorry 'dudes'. I'll keep to myself. Enjoy your g-shocks.

[chrono1g]

^

This kid is retarded. He clearly knows nothing about watches.

[Frogman4me]

Hahaha g shocks are made by casio, not seiko. Owning a rolex does not make you smart

[1000ft]

Okay, we're getting a little childish here. You have g-shock watches - enjoy them.

[slevin kelevra]

So between the New Sub and no offence, a Seiko there are some guys on here who would have the Seiko?? I realise that Seiko has gret history but so does Rolex.

You could give me 10 seikos or the Sub and I'd still choose the Sub.

Each to their own I guess......