Vintage Tudor - Thoughts?

[youenjoymyself]

Hi all,

I am presently looking to buy a gift for my girlfriend and want to buy her a vintage watch for under $500. Generally, watches in that price range seem to be from 'second-tier' brands or eBay (for Omegas) which makes me somewhat uncomfortable not being a watch (let alone vintage) expert. Given this, I am leaning a bit more in the direction of a dealer.

I came across a dealer which was highly recommended by another dealer I know. They have a vintage (1960s/70s) California Tudor listed. I know this is a refinished dial and apparently is is a "new" case, but is it possible it is a Rolex manufactured case? Or would this effectively be a frankenwatch with the original ETA movement, refinished dial and counterfeit case? I am aware that this watch never came with "Rolex" on the dial (but this was apparently a popular mod for resellers). In any case, I'd appreciate any commentary. It's around $350 for the watch, and I don't think my girlfriend cares about how collectible it is. Pictures attached and product description below:

I found a few of these at the latest Florida show. This is a full size man’s watch and it is in mint condition. 25 jewel automatic self winding Swiss Tudor Eta movement that has been serviced and is running strong and keeping good time. I am told that this is a new stainless case with a stainless screw on back that is marked "Original Oyster Case By Rolex Geneva" and Rolex marked screw down winding crown. Black "California" style dial with luminous numbers, luminous Roman numerals on the top half and regular numbers on the bottom half. The silver hands have luminous centers and the sweep second hand has a luminous end. There is a white 24 hour track in the center of the face. Quick set date at 3. This dial is professionally refinished but it is perfect like original. New brown leather band. Cir. 1960's/70s. Remember this watch is not all original factory, new case and refinished dial.
Size 33 x 40 mm

[usbzoso]

man this thing is pretty sweet looking

[youenjoymyself]

Originally Posted by usbzoso

man this thing is pretty sweet looking

Isn't it? So reasonably priced.

I don't even mind if its not all original. I just refuse to buy counterfeit.

[youenjoymyself]

The original dial would not have said Rolex on it though. I am not even sure it would have been a California dial out of the factory either.

[youenjoymyself]

Would really appreciate an opinion! I know there are some extremely knowledgeable folks on here!

[Saxon007]

I don't care for it. Since it has a fake dial I would be awfully suspect about the "NOS" case. And frankly, everything else in it too.

There are better deals to be had IMO.

[harry in montreal]

hey, its a nice watch... but the dial is weird and its not a rolex, its a tudor.

i own both. in fact, i bought my wife a 72000 tudor a couple of yrs ago. you should look for one of those for your lady. the one i got her has a 3/6/9/12 white dial and black numbers. looks like an explorer in many ways. you could get one with a tudor band for about 600$.

just the only thing about getting your woman a watch, especiall if she is not 'into' the hobby... you need to explain that they cant really jump into a pool or take hot showers with them. they could, but you would need to invest in a new gasket and crown/tube.

my wife also didnt like having to reset the time when it stopped. she found it ticked too loud. then she dropped it on the bathroom floor and broke the sapphire. i bought her a digital watch and she is a happy camper. good luck! harry

[youenjoymyself]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

hey, its a nice watch... but the dial is weird and its not a rolex, its a tudor.

i own both. in fact, i bought my wife a 72000 tudor a couple of yrs ago. you should look for one of those for your lady. the one i got her has a 3/6/9/12 white dial and black numbers. looks like an explorer in many ways. you could get one with a tudor band for about 600$.

just the only thing about getting your woman a watch, especiall if she is not 'into' the hobby... you need to explain that they cant really jump into a pool or take hot showers with them. they could, but you would need to invest in a new gasket and crown/tube.

my wife also didnt like having to reset the time when it stopped. she found it ticked too loud. then she dropped it on the bathroom floor and broke the sapphire. i bought her a digital watch and she is a happy camper. good luck! harry

I'd love to get her one of those Tudors but they all seem to be $1200+. Any ideas where I could get them at such a reasonable price?

Thanks for the advice nonetheless. I sure hope my gf wouldn't jump in the pool or shower with a vintage watch! I will tell her, but she tends not to listen to me on most things

[kyle L]

What about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E%252BV4k%253D

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by kyle L

What about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E%252BV4k%253D

That was a sweet watch Kyle. As always, great advice!!!

[youenjoymyself]

Originally Posted by kyle L

What about something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E%252BV4k%253D

You're on the ball Kyle!

That would have been great but seems I missed my chance!

How do you get comfortable with the movement if they do not have any pictures of it?

[kyle L]

I was actually going to bid on that watch, but I missed it. There's at 14 day satisfaction guarantee, so I would have opened it up and seen if everything was ok with the watch. If there was something wrong, you could always use the return period! Or you could just ask the seller to include mvmt pics.

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by youenjoymyself

You're on the ball Kyle!

That would have been great but seems I missed my chance!

How do you get comfortable with the movement if they do not have any pictures of it?

I guess you just trust them until you receive the item and then inspect it right away. One of the reasons why shopping on the Bay is so risky!!!

[slcbbrown]

Originally Posted by youenjoymyself

The original dial would not have said Rolex on it though. I am not even sure it would have been a California dial out of the factory either.

That's a pretty good deal. 33mm for a woman is a nice size for such a sporty model, and it doesn't look like she's wearing her dad's watch. The "recent service" is a nice adder and makes this a much better deal than many you'll find.

[youenjoymyself]

Originally Posted by slcbbrown

That's a pretty good deal. 33mm for a woman is a nice size for such a sporty model, and it doesn't look like she's wearing her dad's watch. The "recent service" is a nice adder and makes this a much better deal than many you'll find.

I just can't get over the fact that its a frankenwatch! It's really cool but it just seems to fake to wear something that says Rolex which might not even have one Rolex part in it.

[Dan Pierce]

It ain't a Rolex and I doubt it's a Tudor.
dP

[roh123]

Should say China at 6 o'clock. Walk away would be my tip

[TattooedGQ]

Around the TRF we call those Rouders....or Tulex's. No Bueno, we flag them on Ebay all the time.

Anyway, I was thinking about picking one up and restoring it to an actual tudor prince...but then i decided against it for various reasons.

[youenjoymyself]

Just spoke with the dealer and he was pretty honest and up front. Said the movement looks okay but he couldn't say much for the rest of it. Said the case was likely not factory and it could be anyone's guess.

So... fake.

[drainaps]

Looks too crisp, especially the fading, which has the looks of a straightforward cream fade- imitating color. Has China written all over it in my opinion. Actually looks like a genuine Shanghailex or Shanghaidor, not quite sure about this last one. Walk away as fast as you can, and cross the dealer out.

[springer]

The dial is a fake and so is the case. The case looks laser etched and never touched a workbench in Switzerland!!!!

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by roh123

Should say China at 6 o'clock. Walk away would be my tip

The truth was wisely stated above.... a sad example of a Tudor.

[youenjoymyself]

I have walked!

Thank you all for the advice!

[drainaps]

Can you please be more specific on who was trying to pass on that piece of cr@p to you? We better be forewarned.....

[youenjoymyself]

The dealer never represented that it was a real Rolex/Tudor. He said just the movement was original (Tudor - ETA) but he stated quite clearly in the description that it was a new case and refinished face.

I would agree it is slightly misleading (given that some might not ask him the questions that I did), but not outright fraud.

It was not a dealer on this forum.

[drainaps]

I saw yesterday a fake 1675 PCG in hong kong. The watch was not obviously wrong, and I inspected it meticulously for at least 30'. , The movement inside the case was nice, much like your pictures show. I walked out on it because:

- It was too crisp and too light. One of our forum colleagues has stated in this thread that the case looks laser etched. I think he is right. It looks too nice for a pretendedly old watch.

- Movement inside was not blatantly wrong, much like yours, at least from pictures. I'm afraid crooks are getting closer and closer to cracking it.

- Looked overall too nice for the asking price...... A huge warning sign when coming from a dealer, not a private individual.

- I was to another dealer in HK yesterday, a VERY well known one, one I'm a regular customer of. He had a very nice 5513, not the mother of all vintages, but a nice one anyway. Case number was very low, 1,060,xxx. Dial did not match. Even for a replacement dial, it was too modern. We looked and re looked together and he finally came to the conclusion that the serial no had been redone...... Not in a million years I would have told that the serial was remachined. Only giveaway was that it was too crisp for an old watch.

In any case, and this is a newbie conclusion, for vintages, if it looks too crisp and you cannot trace a full history, let go. I'm still pondering if the HK dealer had been had ( I almost think so, and he's probably the biggest in HK), but in any case the watch is on display in his shop and he will obviously pass it on to an unsuspecting individual. It's not a fake, but it is not what the serial says it is.

Vintages are a lot like used cars..... There is not such thing as that " poor old lady whose husband passed away and she needed to sell this fast to pay tax on the estate". A whole bunch of cr@p in many cases, and it's getting worse as prices are hiking.

[Lisa]

Reading this thread with interest - I've admired the Tudor "California" dial for quite some time, but always hesitate to commit to getting one because most of the time the dials have been refinished and the "Rolex" logo added... leading me to wonder what else has been done to the watch. I just don't know enough about them to purchase wisely, especially over the internet. Still hold out hope that one will come along that's genuine through and through.

Best to you on your search!

[jpc763]

OK, Y'all. I have one of these and purchased it from the dealer the OP is refering to.

Here are pics, please let me know what is wrong with it... I really want to know.

Here is what I have now. Let me know if you want more...

Case number is 9050/0
Serial number is 556xxx
Movement is ETA 2846










Thanks, John

[Dan Pierce]

John,
These are notorious "parts" watches. Not sure any of it is genuine Tudor or certainly not Rolex. The dial is a reprint at best and probably not even an original Tudor, hands look off for this model, rotor engraving is off, engraving on the back looks wrong.
dP

[Michael M.]

Looks nice, congrats. The case is probably a fake though, the movement is real ETA, but the Tudor engraving is off IMHO. I bought a watch similar to this in 2009, and I had a well respected dealer look at it and chuckle to him self. Sorry. Nice daily wearer though!