Decisions on 14060M...

[buddy13]

Ok I know that the new random serial 14060M subs have the new PB hairspring. With all the advances in materials engineering and considering that the Nivarox is an old 'alloy I have no doubt in my mind that the PB is better in many aspects. The primary of which that interest me is the increased resistance to shocks and 100% amagnetism ...

I have a Z-serial 14060M. Bought it used and is 3.5 years old. I know that it will be due for a service in a few years (since I dive in all my watches) so I am thinking....

Sell the Z-serial sub and for the price of what a service would cost 2 years or so from now (ok maybe a bit more...) I would get a new random serial 14060M with Rolex warranty, PB hairspring and no need for service for at least 5-6 years. Does it make sense to you ?

[dysondiver]

id have a serious look at whos doing your servicing if thats the cost ... keep what you have , millions of watches have springs that arent pb , who cares . they just work , and keep working , ,,,,, if i open the back of my watch and found a pixie pedaling it i wouldnt care as long as it worked.
just my thoughts.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by buddy13

Ok I know that the new random serial 14060M subs have the new PB hairspring. With all the advances in materials engineering and considering that the Nivarox is an old 'alloy I have no doubt in my mind that the PB is better in many aspects. The primary of which that interest me is the increased resistance to shocks and 100% amagnetism ...

I have a Z-serial 14060M. Bought it used and is 3.5 years old. I know that it will be due for a service in a few years (since I dive in all my watches) so I am thinking....

Sell the Z-serial sub and for the price of what a service would cost 2 years or so from now (ok maybe a bit more...) I would get a new random serial 14060M with Rolex warranty, PB hairspring and no need for service for at least 5-6 years. Does it make sense to you ?

Well first the only way to determine that the random 14060M has a parchrom is get the back off.And it would be the same service schedule no matter the name of hairspring in case. While in the Rolex video it states the Parachrom is 10 time more shockproof, but what they don't state is to what.Most certainly not the Nivarox ones that they and most of the watch industry have used for the past 40 odd years.And with magnetic test where they hold a powerful magnet over a open case on a watch.So if you don't wear your watch dial down with the case back off with a powerful magnet near any hairspring.Then I would doubt in the real world that it would make little or no difference whatever the name of hairspring in the case, plus the fact that other parts could get magnetised other than the hairspring..But I do applaud Rolex today for now making there own escapement parts for the very first time,and today if any watch gets magnetised its a very very very simple proses to de-magnetise.And the Parchrom technology is not really new its been out since 2000 in the Daytona only difference then it was not blue more a silver grey colour then

Now Nivarox thats the name of the alloy much like Rolex calls there Parachrom.Today it is used mainly in the watch/clock industry, but also in other micro-machine industries and in certain types of medical equipment and high precision surgical instruments. There are several variations of the Nivarox alloy depending upon the intended application. These alloys are stainless steel alloys with high concentrations of Cobalt (42-48%), Nickel (15-25%) and Chromium (16-22%). There are also small amounts of titanium and beryllium. Hairsprings made of this alloy are highly wear-resistant,and they are practically non-magnetic in normal wearing,and non-rusting and possess a low coefficient of thermal expansion.

Nivarox 1 through 5 is a series of grades of hairsprings with number 1 being the best quality. The most commonly encountered Nivarox hairsprings in the watch industry are grades 1 to 3. The alloy is unaffected by heat and normal every day ordinary magnetic fields. There is however, also the Anachron hairspring which is said to be of even higher quality than the Nivarox No 1 grade.Who knows perhaps that the grade that Rolex used over the past 40 odd years its just a hairspring much like the parachrom..

[dddrees]

I think the main reason they are moving to the Parachrom hairspring is because it is in-house vs the Nivarox which Rolex has to purchase elsewhere. Very doubtfull that you would ever notice any difference between the two.

[dysondiver]

padi ,,, you rock ,,lol , as ever an interesting and informative read.

[RRGHOST1]

Another great post from padi. Enjoy your watch as it is,you couldn't tell the difference what it had in it.

[Lion]

Etienne, in light of the information supplied by Peter I do not think you are gaining any real advantage by selling your current 14060M for a newer one with the parachrom hairspring. So just have your current Sub ND serviced and then use it as you see fit!!!

[77T]

Glad you're among the owners who use it as it was designed to be used

Methinks you may want the new one but, as others have said, I agree there's really no "need" for a new one.

Having said that, do what your heart tells you so you'll not be thinking about it. For me the 14060M is fine with either hairspring.

[karmatp]

Sounds like you been drinking the Rolex cool aid, it's all marketing. The PB is no better than the Nivarox, and you will never be able to tell a difference if you had one or the other.

The only reason Rolex started making the PB is to get away from outsourcing for hairsprings, that is it. Of course they are going to claim theirs is better, gives them another reason for a price increase.

I would be perfectly happy with any movement that had a time proven Nivarox hairspring for life.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Sounds like you been drinking the Rolex cool aid, it's all marketing. The PB is no better than the Nivarox, and you will never be able to tell a difference if you had one or the other.

The only reason Rolex started making the PB is to get away from outsourcing for hairsprings, that is it. Of course they are going to claim theirs is better, gives them another reason for a price increase.

I would be perfectly happy with any movement that had a time proven Nivarox hairspring for life.

Yes its wonderful today what marketing will do today, in many cases its almost like the ancient art of brainwashing.

[buddy13]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Sounds like you been drinking the Rolex cool aid, it's all marketing. The PB is no better than the Nivarox, and you will never be able to tell a difference if you had one or the other.

The only reason Rolex started making the PB is to get away from outsourcing for hairsprings, that is it. Of course they are going to claim theirs is better, gives them another reason for a price increase.

I would be perfectly happy with any movement that had a time proven Nivarox hairspring for life.

Thanks for all replies.

Mine is actually the COSC version (late Z) so cosmetically it would be EXACTLY the same...

I regard the 14060M as one of the best tool watches around and so I thought that an increase in shock resistance and better mag properties should be a bonus.

I know what you mean about Rolex marketing and the in house strategy but I have little doubt in my mind that the PB is not an improvement over Nivarox. The advancements in alloy engineering the last 2 decades have been phenomenal...

However I am not sure if this is worth the cost & hassle for just a hairspring cos as you say the Nivarox is very good...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by buddy13

Thanks for all replies.

Mine is actually the COSC version (late Z) so cosmetically it would be EXACTLY the same...

I regard the 14060M as one of the best tool watches around and so I thought that an increase in shock resistance and better mag properties should be a bonus.

I know what you mean about Rolex marketing and the in house strategy but I have little doubt in my mind that the PB is not an improvement over Nivarox. The advancements in alloy engineering the last 2 decades have been phenomenal...

However I am not sure if this is worth the cost & hassle for just a hairspring cos as you say the Nivarox is very good...

Ask yourself have you ever had any problems with your present watch regarding accuracy or shock etc expect answer will be no.Like you regularly used my watches as tool watches with well over 500 hours underwater myself never had any problems with the Nivarox hairspring or the Kif shock system or magnetism.But the new technology regarding hairsprings is now silicon.But one of the main reasons Rolex did not take that route as they have always used the Bréguet type overcoil design hairspring.And with the silicone type hairspring thats something you cannot do.

[SS Oyster]

Despite what everyone else says, if you can get that deal ... Random ND COSC for your Z + service cost (maybe even a bit more), I'd go with the new one. It is the last of the ND subs, making it more rare, and it's new - parachrom or not. It has no wear, it has no dents/dings/rubs, etc. It's got no stretch in the bracelet, etc.

I say go for it.

Mark

Originally Posted by buddy13

Ok I know that the new random serial 14060M subs have the new PB hairspring. With all the advances in materials engineering and considering that the Nivarox is an old 'alloy I have no doubt in my mind that the PB is better in many aspects. The primary of which that interest me is the increased resistance to shocks and 100% amagnetism ...

I have a Z-serial 14060M. Bought it used and is 3.5 years old. I know that it will be due for a service in a few years (since I dive in all my watches) so I am thinking....

Sell the Z-serial sub and for the price of what a service would cost 2 years or so from now (ok maybe a bit more...) I would get a new random serial 14060M with Rolex warranty, PB hairspring and no need for service for at least 5-6 years. Does it make sense to you ?

[Roxas]

Padi is spot-on that Rolex claims Parachrom is 10 times more shockproof, but they don't state specifically to what. Maybe to the worst hairspring ever created. :)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

Despite what everyone else says, if you can get that deal ... Random ND COSC for your Z + service cost (maybe even a bit more), I'd go with the new one. It is the last of the ND subs, making it more rare, and it's new - parachrom or not. It has no wear, it has no dents/dings/rubs, etc. It's got no stretch in the bracelet, etc.

I say go for it.

Mark

Who said it was the last of the non date sub no one knows that yet. And afraid no modern Rolex is rare no matter what the case stamp or name the spring is.And when his old watch is serviced it will look like new only to get scratches again just like another bought if new watch.

[GradyPhilpott]

I don't think the hairspring is all marketing, although marketing is involved, but I don't believe that the new hairspring is a sufficient cause to flip your watch, unless your hairspring gets magnetized a lot, which is quite doubtful.

Now, of course, people on this board flip watches all the time for no particular reason other than that they want to wear a different watch.

You really don't need a reason at all, except that the change will make you happy, but I wouldn't do it for a hairspring.

Something seems very amiss if you could only get the price of a service for your Submariner and if that's the case, I would explore the reasons why.

[FX44]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well first the only way to determine that the random 14060M has a parchrom is get the back off.And it would be the same service schedule no matter the name of hairspring in case. While in the Rolex video it states the Parachrom is 10 time more shockproof, but what they don't state is to what.Most certainly not the Nivarox ones that they and most of the watch industry have used for the past 40 odd years.And with magnetic test where they hold a powerful magnet over a open case on a watch.So if you don't wear your watch dial down with the case back off with a powerful magnet near any hairspring.Then I would doubt in the real world that it would make little or no difference whatever the name of hairspring in the case, plus the fact that other parts could get magnetised other than the hairspring..But I do applaud Rolex today for now making there own escapement parts for the very first time,and today if any watch gets magnetised its a very very very simple proses to de-magnetise.And the Parchrom technology is not really new its been out since 2000 in the Daytona only difference then it was not blue more a silver grey colour then

Now Nivarox thats the name of the alloy much like Rolex calls there Parachrom.Today it is used mainly in the watch/clock industry, but also in other micro-machine industries and in certain types of medical equipment and high precision surgical instruments. There are several variations of the Nivarox alloy depending upon the intended application. These alloys are stainless steel alloys with high concentrations of Cobalt (42-48%), Nickel (15-25%) and Chromium (16-22%). There are also small amounts of titanium and beryllium. Hairsprings made of this alloy are highly wear-resistant,and they are practically non-magnetic in normal wearing,and non-rusting and possess a low coefficient of thermal expansion.

Nivarox 1 through 5 is a series of grades of hairsprings with number 1 being the best quality. The most commonly encountered Nivarox hairsprings in the watch industry are grades 1 to 3. The alloy is unaffected by heat and normal every day ordinary magnetic fields. There is however, also the Anachron hairspring which is said to be of even higher quality than the Nivarox No 1 grade.Who knows perhaps that the grade that Rolex used over the past 40 odd years its just a hairspring much like the parachrom..

Great information, I'm impressed.