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24 November 2005, 08:25 AM | #1 |
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Movement Question
This is probably a simple question that I may know but I want expert opinions. When they say a movement has lets say 31 jewels why do they use jewels? Is it so the movement will produce less friction? What does the number of jewels have to do with how smooth the watch runs? Do they use real jewels or artificial?
Thanks, Tyler
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24 November 2005, 08:37 AM | #2 |
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Tyler, the jewels are used as bearings in the movement in order to provide less friction. They are synthetic rubies and the contact surfaces can be polished to a very high level of finish. They also are very wear resistant, so are one of the ideal substances for this kind of application.
Oh yes, regarding the number of jewels, this can be due to the quality of the movement (where the movement uses a jewel for a bearing instead of some other material) or it can be due to the complications on the watch (with more functions meaning more bearing points and therefore, more jewels). Hope this helps. Last edited by ----; 24 November 2005 at 08:39 AM.. |
24 November 2005, 08:44 AM | #3 |
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Thanks Al. So since Rolex movements are usually 31 jewels that makes them a higher grade movenment then lets say a ETA right? Obviously the quality of the movement itself is better also. BTW is there anywhere you can buy plain Rolex movements? I don't know why I want one. I guess it would be cool to rip apart and see what makes the thing tick.(pun intended)
Tyler
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24 November 2005, 08:50 AM | #4 |
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I think I remember reading in a Sinn catalog where they've developed a special oil that makes it so they don't need the jewels. It totally cuts down on the friction and the watch also doesn't need service as often. I'll have to find that to verify.
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24 November 2005, 09:15 AM | #5 | |
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I tried to get a decent pic of a jewel - sorry for the poor quality but I am heading out tonight and don't have time to set-up my light box and all that, so please bear with me........ Above is a photo of a Bulova hand wound movement I've torn apart to see if I can get it running. I tried to capture some of the jewels in the main plate - I added a quick note to try to point out where the hole is in one of the jewels. This hole is where the shaft for whatever item comes through (in this case part of the gear train of the movement), with the jewel acting as the bearing. Hope this helps. |
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24 November 2005, 09:23 AM | #6 |
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That's really cool Al!
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24 November 2005, 09:32 AM | #7 |
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Thanks Al. I might try to pick up a cheap ETA movement or something to eventually tear apart. I'm really into watch movements for some reason.
Tyler
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24 November 2005, 10:08 AM | #8 |
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OK. I didn't remember correctly. I was thinking of the Sinn 756 Diapal which has a lubricant free escapement. Now I just have to find out again why it's lubricant free. I hate it when I can't remember stuff. Is this what old age is like?
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24 November 2005, 06:34 PM | #9 |
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Don't read to much in the amount of jewels in a movement,in the jewel war in the 60s-70s.There were watches boasting up to 100 jewels,but most of them then
was purely for decoration,and a sales gimmick.Like the rest have said Jewels are just like bearings in a car,to cut down the friction and wear.Normally a manual wind will have less jewels than a auto.My old Unicorn from 1922 has only 15 jewels but still beating strong.And as for the ETA movements they are fine movements, and are in many a high end watch, sometime slightly modified sometimes not.You will find the ETA 2824-2 in watches from £150 to well over £1000.Tyler you could try a find a old cheap mechanical watch at a flee market or bootsale,for you to take apart and explore the workings of a mechanical watch.
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ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder |
24 November 2005, 06:37 PM | #10 |
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Tyler,
Some watch manufacturers throw in jewels just to glamourise the watch. Remember, some watches have functional and non-functional jewels. In a Rolex, all 31 are functional. Most Pannys have just 21 jewels, yet that is considered a superb movement. You really can't judge a watch solely on the number of jewels in it. There are a number of other factors to be considered as well. JJ
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24 November 2005, 10:19 PM | #11 | |
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The ETA movements today come in a variety of grades and finishes, however the basis of ETA has a very rich history linked to the Eterna Watch company, indeed the ballbearing symbol found on Eterna watches dates back to the invention of the ballbearing Rotor by Mr Schild. http://www.eta.ch/ In my personal view lots of the fine companys would of been better left to the annuls of history rather than being owned by a giant, like Swatch owning them. But there again, if it were not for these large corperations, would we still have a swiss watch industry, i don't know. This is one of the reasons I admire Rolex, they have stuck by their guns driven through the storm of the late 70's and 80's, when many fine swiss names were eaten up, Rolex survived by being true to the founders ideals, and making the product themselves, inhouse. Have you seen the picture of Mr N Hayek Chairman of Swatch. Take a look http://www.omegawatches.com/index.php?id=255 I think that says it all To finish, I remember speaking to an Omega Sales rep a while ago and putting the question to him about Omega, that if I purchased an Omega and a variety of other brands, I was really only buying a badge and buying into the Swatch empire, the surprising thing was he agreed with me. Draw your own conclusions because I'm waffling now. By the way, this is not meant to come across as an Omega or anything else knocking post, I'm thinking aloud... Another thought, have I hijacked this post..oppps sorry
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24 November 2005, 11:09 PM | #12 |
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Tyler, going on Als recommendation on the TZ school, if you look in the movement links section, I believe Padi posted a link where you can buy movements for under $100. If Im not mistaken, I believe Al bought the handwound movement for his project watch for well under $100.
You do see Rolex movements come up for auction on fleabay from time to time but there are horrendously (and artificially) expensive. Sometimes you see vintage Rolex movements on the bay for under $200. Or, you could just buy a fake Rollie (with an auto movement) and dissect it. It would also make a good photo essay - and probably a good science project for school, too! Last edited by Atomic; 24 November 2005 at 11:10 PM.. |
25 November 2005, 01:07 AM | #13 | |
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25 November 2005, 01:40 AM | #14 |
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Thanks guys, I checked that link that Peter posted and they have some good prices on ETA movements. I have not checked the flea yet. I might I might not. Does anyone have a reccomendation to get a set of basic watch making tools for a good price? I think I have a guy who I can get most of this stuff from that works with my dad. He can probably get me a Rolex movement too. He does most of the clock maintainence and does work on Rolex for a local watch a clock shop. It's just a little something for him to do on the side I guess. If I ever decide to get a used Rollie he's probably the way I'd go too. Definately not the flea.
Tyler
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25 November 2005, 01:43 AM | #15 | |
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I think you should shoot for a previously enjoyed Submariner. Theres lots of them around at better prices than new. This guy may also be able to get you a really sweet deal on one too. |
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25 November 2005, 01:51 AM | #16 | |
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Tyler
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25 November 2005, 01:56 AM | #17 | |
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In my case, I got my ExpII used. Granted it was only a month old (the original owner bought without his wifes permission and well...) and I saved over $1,000 on a brand new watch. If buying used, you can save a lot of $$, but I would stick to looking for one with SEL. The difference in that one link is like night and day, IMO. |
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25 November 2005, 01:59 AM | #18 | |
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I am certainly not at the level where I would touch a Rolex movement if I ever intended it to run again. I think trying to take one apart and put it back together without any guidance or instructions, and expect it to run after you are done is a tall order. For your first attempt I would suggest using a movement that you don't care about wrecking, or to do the TZ watch school. |
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25 November 2005, 02:03 AM | #19 | |
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http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=2394
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25 November 2005, 02:17 AM | #20 |
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You know guys, I think it quite possible that we have a future watchmaker in our midst Tyler, you should check out the TZ school, and look up the watchmaking school in PA, can't remember what it's called. If I recall correctly, the school is free, but they are careful with their selections. Something to think about.
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25 November 2005, 02:19 AM | #21 | |
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25 November 2005, 02:21 AM | #22 |
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The guy at the jewelery store where I do most of my buisiness. His family owns it and he says that Swatch is letting people go to watchmaking school for free. I think that all you have to pay is for room and board.
Tyler
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25 November 2005, 05:43 AM | #23 | |
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25 November 2005, 05:55 AM | #24 |
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And there is a reason why the number of functional jewels is always odd...
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25 November 2005, 03:13 PM | #25 | |
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For example...that classic example of the IWC Scaffusia you posted the other day....it has 76 jewels. JJ
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25 November 2005, 03:32 PM | #26 | |
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25 November 2005, 03:37 PM | #27 | |
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Words fail me in expressing my utmost thanks to ALL of you for this wonderful support during my hour of need!! I firmly believe that my time on planet earth is NOT yet up!! I shall fight this to the very end.......and WIN!! Last edited by JJ Irani; 25 November 2005 at 03:39 PM.. |
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