How to tell a relume etc?

[richard1948]

Can the Forum give some simple pointers to a novice on how to tell if a dial and hands are original etc on a vintage Sub?

[mdw3]

It can be very tricky. Look for a glow after exposure to light (but not always foolproof). Then, look for a distinct "puffiness" to the markers (but not always foolproof). Then, look for a greenish cast to the coloration of the markers (but not always foolproof). Lastly, look for a more glossy, "paste-like" texture to the markers and/or hands (but not always foolproof). Or, you could spend years looking at thousands of different old dials and hands, under 10X-40X magnification, until you feel that you usually, almost always can tell (but maybe not always). Get the idea?

Michael

[springer]

As Michael noted, it is not an exact science - but he did provide some good pointers for the novice collector. It's a little like Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart describing pornography when he said that it's tough for him to define it, but he knows it when he sees it. Later, Justice Stewart's famous quote was used by James Bond when Goldfinger asked Bond what he knew about gold and Bond responded, "I know it when I see it."

[Awesome Jim]

I agree with Michael too- a lot of us have a good feel for how they should look, but if it's older and I'm buying it and I think it's right, I get a watchmaker involved.

They know more than I do and the people who redo dials often ( not always) put a note on the back of the dial.

It can affect the value and your reputation if you resell it with wrong info. J

[gregorpal]

well,I agree with you all, but it will become harder and harder when you see some of the vietnamit / asian fake dials they are making nowdays.

[Kingair]

Originally Posted by gregorpal

well,I agree with you all, but it will become harder and harder when you see some of the vietnamit / asian fake dials they are making nowdays.

When money is involved . . . you know that someone someday starts to mess with things . . . . :-(

HAGOne

[slcbbrown]

Most of the questionable relumes I see are cases of poorly done "color inside the lines" kind of things. The poor workmanship shows with high magnification and looks like the person doing the work was using a thick paint and had trouble getting into the corners or holding a crisp, straight line.

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by slcbbrown

Most of the questionable relumes I see are cases of poorly done "color inside the lines" kind of things. The poor workmanship shows with high magnification and looks like the person doing the work was using a thick paint and had trouble getting into the corners or holding a crisp, straight line.

Maybe so, but I can say with certainty that the original 1950s factory lume work definitely did NOT uniformly cover the entire marker area, particularly into the corners or on a straight line. If you look closely at early gilt Submariner dials, you will see ample open space in the corners of the gilt borders, not covered by luminous matter. The factory work is generally fairly neat and consistent, but you should be aware that it was done by hand in this period, and is accordingly variable.

Michael

[NYMike]

Will a RSC relume have much effect on prices? I have an old piece that supposedly got RSC relume back in the 70's (though it doesn't look evident).

[harry in montreal]

someone posted earlier today that 50s subs/turno's used a different lume on the 6 oclock marker. anyone know when this practice was discontinued?

[harry in montreal]

someone posted earlier today that 50s subs/turno's used a different lume on the 6 oclock marker. anyone know when this practice was discontinued?

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

someone posted earlier today that 50s subs/turno's used a different lume on the 6 oclock marker. anyone know when this practice was discontinued?

When the transition was made from strong radium to the radium "lite" around 1959 the unique 6 o'clock marker was discontinued. A reduced radioactivity radium was in use from late 1959-1963. Tritium came into common use around 1963 or so.

Michael

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

someone posted earlier today that 50s subs/turno's used a different lume on the 6 oclock marker. anyone know when this practice was discontinued?

I knew they used radium instead of tritium in the 50's, a different lume on just the 6 oclock marker is news to me!

[wokafu]

Originally Posted by mdw3

It can be very tricky. Look for a glow after exposure to light (but not always foolproof). Then, look for a distinct "puffiness" to the markers (but not always foolproof). Then, look for a greenish cast to the coloration of the markers (but not always foolproof). Lastly, look for a more glossy, "paste-like" texture to the markers and/or hands (but not always foolproof). Or, you could spend years looking at thousands of different old dials and hands, under 10X-40X magnification, until you feel that you usually, almost always can tell (but maybe not always). Get the idea?

Michael

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by NYMike

Will a RSC relume have much effect on prices? I have an old piece that supposedly got RSC relume back in the 70's (though it doesn't look evident).

If you can tell the difference, then, yes, it will have just as much effect on the value as a relume done by Reliable Watch Service on Pico in West LA in 1965. If you can't tell the difference from original, well then, who would be the wiser?

Michael

[Beelzy]

Every "Re-lume" I have cast my eyes upon, looked like crap under high magnification.

My motto when dealing with Vintage watches is "Walk softly, and carry a strong Loupe".

[high5]

Definitely not an exact science. But you will get a sense or feel after staring at hundred of watches of similar models. Look for things like uneven patina or uneven fills on markers. There are different shape of markers depending on which production year too such as the serif style, so if it is not consistent, then it is bad. Also see if there is any strange mark on the dial (finger print, or discoloration, all these can indicate the dial had been tempered with). If anything look strange, walk away.

[high5]

And if no one person can tell if it was relumed, it is as good as original.

[VintageWatchTrader]

Whatever watch it is, if you ask 10 people you are going to get 10 different answers. You need to be comfortable with the watch when you see it immediately. Also check for lume-spillovers onto the dial.

[high5]

haha. yeah.