calibre 3186 question.

[flames]

Hi. After some googling and exhaustive searching for what will be my watch (still looking), I think I have it figured out... but I have a question.

First off, I'm a pilot for an airline, so a GMT hand is an actual useful tool for me. I started this search dead set on getting a GMT II. It's the pilot watch and seemed the perfect fit. However, I don't really love the green of the latest model. So I would occasionally come here and search for the perfect GMT II, which incidentally was a black bezel, pre-ceramic.

Somewhere along the way, I have fallen deeply in love with the Explorer II and it's made me forget about wanting a GMT. I don't have a big wrist so I am definitely looking for the 40mm version. I have also seemed to have mentally selected a later model (late Z, M, V serials) because of the 3186 movement. This has very little to do with speculation about rarity or anything like that and more to do with thinking that perhaps the movement would be a little more accurate in my environment (cockpit, magnetic variance, probably over-thinking this part). Also, I am thinking these later models will be less in need of servicing. Obviously it's not inexpensive to have a Rolex in for authorized servicing. Is my thinking that if I buy an earlier model that it might be closer to needing service correct?

It seems that I keep seeing 3185 watches and mentally crossing them off of the list because I have decided that the 3186 would be better for me. Am I ruling out some great watches for no good reason or is my want of a 3186 based on some sort of sound thinking? Thanks!

[incontrol]

I just purchased an Explorer II 16570 with the 3186 movement because the movement is refined further than the 3185. Also I like newer watches and the later serial numbers seem to fit this perfectly.

[Annan]

Originally Posted by incontrol

I just purchased an Explorer II 16570 with the 3186 movement because the movement is refined further than the 3185. Also I like newer watches and the later serial numbers seem to fit this perfectly.

X2.....also bought an EXP II, an M series, with the 3186 movement. Quite honestly, I am not enough of an expert to know if or how it's better than the 3185. I can tell you the accuracy is very good. It loses 2 seconds/day. I self regulate it each evening by letting it rest face up overnight. In the morning, it is spot on! My reference source is time.gov.

[G-Web]

The 3185 is a great movement that's been tried and true for a number of years now, since the mid to late 80's I think. Some say a Rolex should be serviced every 5 years or so, and others say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I like the latter mindset, and I think if you wanted to save a little money, you could find a slightly older watch that would serve you well.

That said, I too opted for an Explorer II with the 3186, simply because I like knowing I got one of the last of this watch's production run. My daily wearer is a G Serial, and I absolutely love it.

Either way, you can't go wrong with an Explorer II. Truly a great watch.
Best,
GW

[Speed]

Originally Posted by flames

It seems that I keep seeing 3185 watches and mentally crossing them off of the list because I have decided that the 3186 would be better for me. Am I ruling out some great watches for no good reason or is my want of a 3186 based on some sort of sound thinking? Thanks!

Yes. You are ruling out some great pre-owned watches.

Why exactly do you think the 3186 will be better for you? I have no idea what your reasoning is. There will be no difference in time keeping and/or enjoyment between the two movements.

Buy a watch in pristine condition and you will LOVE it. The GMT old or new is one of my favorites!

[Chewbacca]

good watch either way... but i always try to get the most recent incarnation that fits my budget unless i'm looking for a vintage.

[77T]

IMHO, the Explorer II has much less chance of being mis-read at a glance vs. the GMT. I chalk that up to the bezel on the Expl.II

On your 3185 vs. 3186 thinking - take a look at these threads over the past 4 years to decide for yourself:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=157985

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=147617

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=68616

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=43886

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=38309

[flames]

Thanks for all of your thoughts, and for the links to those threads.

I agree that I am probably over-thinking the importance of the Parachrom Bleu hairspring to the accuracy of the watch. However, if the watch that I want is no longer made I do think that it makes some measure of sense to get the most recent version, no?

I suppose what I am saying is that the newer one would likely give me some time before it needed to go in for service and when it did would be less likely to have worn parts that needed to be replaced. Is this somewhat accurate?

Also, despite it's ability to divide opinion I really like the engraved rehaut and most (all?) of the 3186 EXP IIs I have seen feature that, though I don't know when it started.

[NKflyer]

Also keep in mind that sellers seem to want a steep premium for the 3186. Something like $1000+ over the watches with 3185. For that kind of price difference, you could buy a slightly older watch and have it fully serviced to run and look like brand new at RSC and still have some cash left over.

[Brushpup]

You are over thinking the importance of the 3186. It is an improvement, but on the older GMT models, the premium sellers ask is way out of line IMO. Not only that, but there were few of them fitted with the newer movement. As for the premium, you simply don't get that much more for your money. And now, the 3186 has been surpassed by the the 3187 in newer watches.

If you are looking at the older GMT-16710, you have some options. You can wait until a pristine or NOS (New Old Stock) pops up, or you can find one in excellent condition, worn little and still have several years before a service is needed. Lastly, you could find a good deal on one that would allow for cost of service, and practially have a brand new watch. If you are looking at the Last version of the ExpII, be warned that they are also travelleing at a premium right now since they were just discontinued recently. It happens with every model for a while afterward. It's just personal taste, but I enocourage you to look for a GMT vs an ExpII, especially with you being a Pilot. I prefer the older GMT's myself, but have mixed emotions on the new version. Lately, it has been calling out to me.

Welcome to TRF, hang out, learn and ask questions as we all like to talk shop on watches.

[flames]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

It happens with every model for a while afterward. It's just personal taste, but I enocourage you to look for a GMT vs an ExpII, especially with you being a Pilot. I prefer the older GMT's myself, but have mixed emotions on the new version. Lately, it has been calling out to me.

Welcome to TRF, hang out, learn and ask questions as we all like to talk shop on watches.

Thanks for the welcome. The EXP II is really calling out to me currently, but I have already rationalized getting it in Polar. This so when I get a GMT as well, I will have a white and black faced watch.

Pretty interesting I am already making plans for the second one before the first one is on my wrist.

[Brushpup]

Stick around here for long and you'll be making plans for the third.

That's good thinking, but I can tell you, there is nothing quite like a Black Bezel GMT Master when you look down at your wrist. Nothing at all.

Good luck, and do let us know what you decide.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

You are over thinking the importance of the 3186. It is an improvement, but on the older GMT models, the premium sellers ask is way out of line IMO. Not only that, but there were few of them fitted with the newer movement. As for the premium, you simply don't get that much more for your money. And now, the 3186 has been surpassed by the the 3187 in newer watches.

If you are looking at the older GMT-16710, you have some options. You can wait until a pristine or NOS (New Old Stock) pops up, or you can find one in excellent condition, worn little and still have several years before a service is needed. Lastly, you could find a good deal on one that would allow for cost of service, and practially have a brand new watch. If you are looking at the Last version of the ExpII, be warned that they are also travelleing at a premium right now since they were just discontinued recently. It happens with every model for a while afterward. It's just personal taste, but I enocourage you to look for a GMT vs an ExpII, especially with you being a Pilot. I prefer the older GMT's myself, but have mixed emotions on the new version. Lately, it has been calling out to me.

Welcome to TRF, hang out, learn and ask questions as we all like to talk shop on watches.

At last someone with a bit of sense about the 3185/6/7 saga.

[Roller07]

you won't go wrong with the 3185 or 3186 movement

Don't believe the hype

[slim4511]

I love my GMT. I also think either the 3185 or 3186 will suit you fine.

[Hkspwrsche]

I have a pepsi gmt with a 3186 and was lucky enough to buy it before the price mattered so I bought it just for me and just because the M was the last of this icon with no investment in mind. I have compared it with my friends 3185 version in my hand several times. The minor differences are exactly that. Minor. Tighter gear train, different ratio(more jumps per turn, and unless you remove the back the parachrome spring won't be obvious. Functionally it's pretty much the same. Now if you are looking for a 3186 then you are one of the folks that, like me, prefers to have something a little different even if it's just for you. I think this may actually be fairly common among watch folks. I wouldn't say we are always looking at what does the same thing for the least money such as a quartz and naturally if some sense of rarity is built in the sellers will hold out for more. There are models that were unloved and the newest version is much nicer but now the old version is worth more. To a non WIS it doesn't make sense to buy a mechanical watch for several thousand instead of a hand full of quartz watches for a few dollars and why spend 3 grand more for the rolex version when the omega version does the same thing and you still get a mechanical, Swiss made watch. I think the arguments for rolex over omega make as much sense as picking 3186 over 3185. It's really up to you. If you want to spend more for something that is functionally about the same but the market is higher for it I say do it if it makes you happy. If you have it set in your mind to get one thing then settling won't feel the same. Don't expect it to be an investment either. Just get what you want.

[flames]

Nicely said Hkspwrsche, I think it's the fact that I have already sort of decided that I want the latest iteration that makes me feel like anything else would be wort of settling in a way.

Again, I am not really interested in rarity for the sake of investment and I'm not 100% certain that I won't opt for a nice 3185, but I do know that I would prefer a 3186. I though maybe a bit of the premium pricing for 3186 watches had died down from a couple of years ago, but perhaps there is still a premium to be paid for them.

[aardvarkbark]

Originally Posted by flames

I started this search dead set on getting a GMT II. It's the pilot watch and seemed the perfect fit. However, I don't really love the green of the latest model.

As you note, the GMT is the pilot's watch. The rotating bezel gives you the ability to track a 3rd time zone. If it's the green GMT hand and one line of print on the dial of the ceramic that bothers you, I wonder if you wouldn't find the rotating bezel of the older style more useful in the cockpit than the fixed of the Exp II. I have both and wear the Exp II when on the ground.

Originally Posted by Hkspwrsche

The minor differences are exactly that. Minor. ...unless you remove the back the parachrome spring won't be obvious. Functionally it's pretty much the same.

I believe the good folks at Rolex would argue that the addition of the parachrome spring adds real functional value that is anything but 'minor' when compared to its predecessor, regardless of whether one removes the back. It's not its pretty blue color that differentiates it.

[incontrol]

In the end there are million more Explorer II watches with the 3185 movement versus the 3186 movement. I like having something that everyone around me does not have. It adds a story to the watch and for me it is worth a little extra.

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by flames

Nicely said Hkspwrsche, I think it's the fact that I have already sort of decided that I want the latest iteration that makes me feel like anything else would be wort of settling in a way.

Again, I am not really interested in rarity for the sake of investment and I'm not 100% certain that I won't opt for a nice 3185, but I do know that I would prefer a 3186. I though maybe a bit of the premium pricing for 3186 watches had died down from a couple of years ago, but perhaps there is still a premium to be paid for them.

I won't knock you wanting or paying more for a 3186 if it makes you happier and I do understand the want. Just be aware that if you hold out for one on a GMT 16710 you might wait a long time before finding one.

[flames]

Originally Posted by aardvarkbark

As you note, the GMT is the pilot's watch. The rotating bezel gives you the ability to track a 3rd time zone. If it's the green GMT hand and one line of print on the dial of the ceramic that bothers you, I wonder if you wouldn't find the rotating bezel of the older style more useful in the cockpit than the fixed of the Exp II. I have both and wear the Exp II when on the ground.

I do think that I will eventually end up with a GMT as well, but the rotating bezel isn't really a huge concern for me. With the automation level of today's cockpit, I can always get zulu time off of my FMS. Though it'd be nice to have a quick reference on my wrist, the third timezone isn't such a need that I feel I can't live without it. I do appreciate what you are saying, and that's why I eventually want both.

[Brushpup]

So does this mean you decided on the Explorer II? The new version, or the old?

[77T]

Originally Posted by flames

I do think that I will eventually end up with a GMT as well, but the rotating bezel isn't really a huge concern for me. With the automation level of today's cockpit, I can always get zulu time off of my FMS. Though it'd be nice to have a quick reference on my wrist, the third timezone isn't such a need that I feel I can't live without it. I do appreciate what you are saying, and that's why I eventually want both.

Agree with the Expl.II as your first choice.

[93 Turbo]

Putting the 3185/3186 hype aside. I'd lean toward the M series and later Exp II, purely for the hand & dial luminosity. Preferable when working in low light conditions.

My M series 16570's luminosity is no where near as good/bright as my Breilting Aerospace, but it's better than not having any.

This may not be a biggy for you?

[flames]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

So does this mean you decided on the Explorer II? The new version, or the old?

The 42mm is far too big for me, I love the orange GMT hand, but have about a 6.75 inch wrist and 40mm is about as big as I ever want to go.

[submariner66]

Take a look a the new GMT II C, I bet the green hand and print will start to grow on you.

[Marrk]

I don't imagine that you will have to service a 3185 any more frequently than a 3186, but I have a Pepsi GMT II M-series with the 3186 and a stick dial, and every little thing about it — much of which means little to others — makes me very happy indeed.

You sound like you are particular. Don't listen to others. Get what you like.

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by flames

The 42mm is far too big for me, I love the orange GMT hand, but have about a 6.75 inch wrist and 40mm is about as big as I ever want to go.

I'm with you there. I too have a 6.75 wrist and I sometimes wonder if my 40MM watches look big to observers. I tell myself they don't, but I know 36 really is perfect.

As for the older models, I have always found it strange that I don't care for the black dial Exp II, but love the white. And I am a black or dark dial guy most of the time. On the new one however, it seems to work better and I can't explain why.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I don't imagine that you will have to service a 3185 any more frequently than a 3186, but I have a Pepsi GMT II M-series with the 3186 and a stick dial, and every little thing about it — much of which means little to others — makes me very happy indeed.

You sound like you are particular. Don't listen to others. Get what you like.

The infamous so called stick or mistake dial GMT they always bring a smile to my face but any GMT type watch will be fine whether it has 3185/6/7.

[flames]

Originally Posted by Brushpup

I'm with you there. I too have a 6.75 wrist and I sometimes wonder if my 40MM watches look big to observers. I tell myself they don't, but I know 36 really is perfect.

As for the older models, I have always found it strange that I don't care for the black dial Exp II, but love the white. And I am a black or dark dial guy most of the time. On the new one however, it seems to work better and I can't explain why.

I hear you, I wear an old Omega Seamaster bumper automatic that goes about 35-36mm and comparitively a 40mm feels ENORMOUS! I can even fathom some of these massive watches that dwarf the 40mm watches these days. To each their own.