High horology on a budget!

[johnswatch]

Here's a teaser....

For less than the cost iof a Patek strap and buckle you can purchase a piece of wonderful haute horlogerie.

The movement is the Seagull ST80 and I am surprised at the level of finishing. I am a huge fan of Seagull watches as they give a very affordable intro to complictaed horological engineering. The 'beijing stripes' many of you will be familiar with are not present, instead being much more refined geneva style waves.

The overall level of finishing is way above other chinese watches and is higher than the majority of non-high end Swiss watches. No black polishing but all steel parts are nicely polished and the wheels have a nice shine to then without the usual scratches and scuffs.

Review to follow once I've had a few days to assess the accuracy. I will comment and say that QC from Minorva could have been better but their customer service has been excellent.

[bcacncnc]

Looks fantastic. More pics please.

[paverman]

I'm intrigued. Please post more photos including movement shots as well as strap and buckle details.

[Passionata]

Great piece


Best
George

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[QueueCumber]

Wow, a tourbillon for less than $1500 dollars.

Here are pics from their website:

[QueueCumber]

Looking at their website, they definitely have models that emulate a lot of different brands. It is unfortunate that they didn't try and make their own style comprised of their own magnificent and majestic cultural history.

[johnswatch]

Thanks QueueCumber.

The Seagull movement looks much like the Blancpain tourbillon design however the Seagull uses a different toubillon cage layout.

The minorva takes it's design cues from many different references, not unlike many Swiss brands today. My point is that Seagull have managed to mass produce something that the Swiss would have us believe is a dark art practiced only by virgin dwarfs in caves buried deep under lake Geneva. The visible parts of the movement are finished to a surprisingly high degree. There are however a few howlers that give the game away but I'll leave that to the review shortly.

[Al1988]

I'm very intrigued by this piece, looking forward to your review

[wingku]

me too, looking forward to the review!

If this tourbillon can be a legitimate match up to the rest.

[caryyee]

Wow, definitely looking good from the front. Looking forward to your review!

[FeelingTheBlues]

That sure is a very nice looking watch! I've admired Minorva watches for a rather long time and am really amazed by their looks, they sure are beautiful!

Congratulations and enjoy it! If you want a fun fact I believe this escapement is actually a Carousel and not a Tourbillon since the rotation axis is not in the middle of the balance wheel, it isn't rotating around its middle but rather around a different point.

[johnswatch]

There a great video on Youtube showing the differences between a tourbillon and a carousel tourbillon. Search for Blancpain Tourbillon and it will pop up.

All of these escapements are referred to as tourbillons when the original toubillons followed I think a 12 hour rotation not a one minute rotation.

I prefer to think of co-axial tourbillons for those that revolve on the centre of the balance wheel.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by johnswatch

There a great video on Youtube showing the differences between a tourbillon and a carousel tourbillon. Search for Blancpain Tourbillon and it will pop up.

All of these escapements are referred to as tourbillons when the original toubillons followed I think a 12 hour rotation not a one minute rotation.

I prefer to think of co-axial tourbillons for those that revolve on the centre of the balance wheel.

I know there has been a very big debate regarding the name and the definition of those two escapements, I believe somebody told me once that Blancpain and other watch brands never agreed on them and that a tourbillon for Blancpain wasn't the same one as another one from another watch company. In fact, the funny thing is that my teachers and the book I use at my school both describe a tourbillon as an escapement rotating around an axis in the middle of itself whilst a carousel will rotate around one that is in a different place. The book doesn't talk about co-axial or flying tourbillons though and they all make a complete rotation in one minute only...

...With all those debates and different definitions/types of escapements, I much prefer to let the big brands argue on their side and enjoy those impressive horological masterpieces! Again, congratulations, it really looks great on you!

[tigerpac]

Soooo it's a machine-made chinese knockoff?

[inspires]

Looks great on you. Wear it in good health!

[alexlt730512]

it looks like breguet.

[andromeda160]

just bought this the other day shopping with my girlfriend. automatic day date month and a 24 hour clock at the bottom that shows what hr it is for that. pretty neat, automatic with multiple complications for $130.

[johnswatch]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

Soooo it's a machine-made chinese knockoff?

Yes it is Chinese, as are many of the components in a "Swiss" watch. ETA have factories over there too.

It is largely machine made, exactly the same as all mechanical watches however I believe that there is more hand intervention in the Beijing and Seagull watches as their factories are less automated than most modern Swiss enterprises.

Knock-off? I would disagree. It is certainly inspired by some traditional Swiss designs but wouldn't say it's a knock-off or copy. In fact I can't find a single Swiss design that's the same. It has a breguet style case, stamped guilloche dial and a flying tourbillon carousel tourbillon but nothing copied.

Perhaps it has a case similar in style to a Breguet or Speake-Marin but I don't think anyone would be misled and I don't think the brand is trying to mislead their customers or the general public.

It's certainly better than a homage becasue breguet don't even have a similar tourbillon and Blancpain don't have a similar case or dial design. The Blancpain has a very different architecture to the tourbillon cage which look similar at first glance but use different placement of wheels and pinions.

Anyway - review coming shortly as I'm monitoring the timekeeping at the moment and it may require some adjustments.....

Let's try and keep this discussion fact based.

[wingku]

i wouldn't call it a knock-off at all....knockoffs are poorly made with like the exact brand name stamps on the product, like LV, Gucci or Rolex etc. Knockoffs are purely scams.

[tigerpac]

That's fair, questioning it as a knock-off was harsh. I think saying its 'better than a homage' is a bit of a stretch though.

[johnswatch]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

That's fair, questioning it as a knock-off was harsh. I think saying its 'better than a homage' is a bit of a stretch though.

The puropse of my thread was to highlight that you can get a real tourbillon of decent quality for realistic money, not start a homage debate.

However, I am curous as to the watch it is "homaging" to stretch the English language. Pics?

[tigerpac]

The design elements are clearly not original - I'd say just about all who see it think the same thing. We can differ as our opinion if an homage has to be from one watch or can take elements from 2 or 3.

I just find it odd that people are cheering the use of cheap Chinese labor to make something clearly look like something else. But perhaps it is the future and I'm just behind in the times. Maybe through things like this, they can improve the working conditions there.

[Israguard]

I think there is no comparison with a Swiss product. However.. Paying $185k on a tourbillion is in my opinion insane. Let the Chinese improve, flood the market and maybe the Swiss will reduce their prices to more reasonable levels. Come on.. $185k for a watch?
Just my rant

[lja1821]

beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! enjoy it,looks fantastic!!

[TonyD]

Its fun to watch them spin isn't it? Not sure if its that exact movement but you can get a Seagull Tourby from Sturhling, Invicta and Android among others for the $500-1000 mark.

[ghotihead2001]

What happens when it needs a service? Or do you just throw it away and buy a new one?

[stockae92]

nice, I look forward to more pic and review

i know one day I would have one as well since that's my only ticket to a tourbillon ... LOL

[jolimont]

mine

[Sherwooddavid]

Originally Posted by tigerpac

Soooo it's a machine-made chinese knockoff?

[caryyee]

It sure looks like it's much more of a watch than the price might suggest. And yes, if a manufacturer can mass produce a tourbillon for a 1/100th the cost of a 'name' brand, then it does show that a tourbillon isn't necessarily a specialized complication requiring an artisan to produce, and then puts into question why name brand one's are so expensive? I mean, are they really that much more complicated than an annual calendar if the Chinese can mass produce these so easily?