Red Sub 1978 - Buyer Beware?

[davidabrahamovitch]

Hi All,

I've come across this red sub and interested to hear opinions about if it's genuine or not... and what you al think of condition! I know some on here have incredible eyes for detail... far better than me!

Also, I'm not sure that all pictures are of the same watch?

And.... I think I know which Mark Dial it is... but (without leading anyone) would like others with more knowledge to confirm!

It's box no papers... and the price is good...buyer beware?

Any input greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

David

[cruvon]

There was no Red Sub in 1978, sure you got the year right?

[southtexas]

Edited my original opinion/post. Looks to be simply a luminova service dial (no "mark" designation to be had, I don't think). I do think your dates are off a bit, what are the first few digits of the serial #?

[Vincent65]

pass - quickly!

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by cruvon

There was no Red Sub in 1978, sure you got the year right?

Not sure at all!

I'm just going with what it says on the site...

"Here for sale is a Rolex vintage 1680 'red writing', it has a 40mm steel case, steel Oyster bracelet with fold clasp. It has a perspex domed glass, bi-directional rotating bezel and it is powered by an automatic movement. it has a black dial with date at 3 o'clock and it is water resistant to 200m. It was manufactured in 1978 and is Supplied with a Rolex box and our comprehensive 12 month warranty."

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I'm not too familiar with service dials, but I'd bet this is a actually a white sub painted red. On second look, it definitely is not right. Keep looking.

Wow! Ok! I'm so glad I asked the question! How can you tell?

[davidabrahamovitch]

What about this one?

[3sheets86]

I'm having great difficulty finding a good vintage sports model in the UK. Anything that is reasonable is usually about 25% more expensive than it ought to be.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by davidabrahamovitch

Wow! Ok! I'm so glad I asked the question! How can you tell?

Sorry, see my edited post above. I made that first assumption given the length of the word "sub" in relation to the ft=m line. Then I noticed the swiss marking, and remembered online a little write-up with pics of the service dial. That's what it seems you have there.

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by 3sheets86

I'm having great difficulty finding a good vintage sports model in the UK. Anything that is reasonable is usually about 25% more expensive than it ought to be.

It's pretty upsetting when you see the USD prices in the for sale section of this forum!!!

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by davidabrahamovitch

What about this one?

Need better pics, preferably with the writing unobstructed.

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Sorry, see my edited post above. I made that first assumption given the length of the word "sub" in relation to the ft=m line. Then I noticed the swiss marking, and remembered online a little write-up with pics of the service dial. That's what it seems you have there.

Ok, thats interesting! I don't know the first few digits... the place is not far from me, so you think it's one worth following up on?

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Need better pics, preferably with the writing unobstructed.

Yes i noticed the the minute hand is (conveniently?) blocking the 6's etc. on the feet first... just me being cynical or is that very convenient part to be blocking?

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by davidabrahamovitch

Not sure at all!

I'm just going with what it says on the site...

"Here for sale is a Rolex vintage 1680 'red writing', it has a 40mm steel case, steel Oyster bracelet with fold clasp. It has a perspex domed glass, bi-directional rotating bezel and it is powered by an automatic movement. it has a black dial with date at 3 o'clock and it is water resistant to 200m. It was manufactured in 1978 and is Supplied with a Rolex box and our comprehensive 12 month warranty."

OK, I found that watch online. If they are correct about the date, then the watch has a service dial which is incorrect to it. Stay away from that watch, and probably that seller also.

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by southtexas

OK, I found that watch online. If they are correct about the date, then the watch has a service dial which is incorrect to it. Stay away from that watch, and probably that seller also.

I thought as much....

It's up for £2k - £3k less than what the 'market' price seems to be...

If it seems too good to be true..... (!)

[eeh100773]

I think the photos are of the same watch - I just don't know if the watch is legit. It doesn't look "worn in" like the other red 1680s I see in the forum and on line. I'm no expert, but it looks off to me.

[southtexas]

[QUOTE=davidabrahamovitch;4581092]Ok, thats interesting! I don't know the first few digits... the place is not far from me, so you think it's one worth following up on?[/QUOTE]

Nope

[3sheets86]

If its a red you're looking for, Mike Wood has one at the Old Watch Shop, £7,500. I'm not sure how correct it is but I assume coming from Mike Wood it will be exactly what he says it is.
The problem with some of the big UK watch dealers is that if it's more than 20 years old they don't actually know what they are selling, they deal mostly in new stuff and when they get something that has a plexi glass they automatically decide that it must be worth the earth but if you ask them about the watch they can rarely tell you anything about its history, if it has been serviced or polished, service dial, later hands etc etc.
As you say, very frustrating!

[Oryx]

Originally Posted by 3sheets86

If its a red your looking for, Mike Wood has one at the Old Watch Shop, £7,500. I'm not sure how correct it is but I assume coming from Mike Wood it will be exactly what he says it is.
The problem with some of the big UK watch dealers is that if it's more than 20 years old they don't actually know what they are selling, they deal mostly in new stuff and when they get something that has a plexi glass they automatically decide that it must be worth the earth but if you ask them about the watch they can rarely tell you anything about its history, if it has been serviced or polished, service dial, later hands etc etc.
As you say, very frustrating!

I concur with this - there is a serious lack of quality vintage watch dealers in the UK who actually know what they are selling and sell at reasonable prices. Some of guys around Burlington Arcade are massively over priced and I have read of some shocking customer service stories too.

Mike Wood is supposed to be one of the better guys and someone that I need to initiate dialogue with!

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by 3sheets86

If its a red you're looking for, Mike Wood has one at the Old Watch Shop, £7,500. I'm not sure how correct it is but I assume coming from Mike Wood it will be exactly what he says it is.
The problem with some of the big UK watch dealers is that if it's more than 20 years old they don't actually know what they are selling, they deal mostly in new stuff and when they get something that has a plexi glass they automatically decide that it must be worth the earth but if you ask them about the watch they can rarely tell you anything about its history, if it has been serviced or polished, service dial, later hands etc etc.
As you say, very frustrating!

Yes i totally agree!

And i've seen the one at the old watch shop... but thanks for the heads up!!!

[3sheets86]

I sometimes look on chrono24 and see things on ebay that are being sold through a business and as soon as I see London as the location I automatically think over priced!
I've been looking at a lovely 1675 GMT for a couple of months but as nice as it is it is well over priced and it shows because it's been hanging around for about 3 or 4 months and if it was priced right or nearly right it wouldn't still be for sale.

[katana]

The first image, I think is a white Sub. which has been repainted .......... text Submariner is too far to the left.

[Mark020]

Only swiss is service dial so dial is ok imho.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by davidabrahamovitch

It's pretty upsetting when you see the USD prices in the for sale section of this forum!!!

Probably upsetting for the US sellers as well, to look across the pond and see the prices the same watches are going for over there!

[davidabrahamovitch]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Probably upsetting for the US sellers as well, to look across the pond and see the prices the same watches are going for over there!

Haha true I hadn't thought of it like that!!!

[swish77]

Hmmmm ... Maybe I'm missing something, but why don't you buy from a U.S. seller and have it shipped? Sounds as if that would still be cheaper even if you had to pay some import fees, and there are things you can do to minimize that, too.

[3sheets86]

Originally Posted by swish77

Hmmmm ... Maybe I'm missing something, but why don't you buy from a U.S. seller and have it shipped? Sounds as if that would still be cheaper even if you had to pay some import fees, and there are things you can do to minimize that, too.

We have to pay VAT at 20% on top of the value of the item so it tends to make watches as expensive as they are here.

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by katana

The first image, I think is a white Sub. which has been repainted .......... text Submariner is too far to the left.

it has not been "repainted" its a Service Dial for the Red. Which you can only get from the rolex service center if you have your Red serviced and it needs the dial replaced.

[JustinK]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Only swiss is service dial so dial is ok imho.

I think it's okay as well. You don't see too many of these.

[Old Expat Beast]

Matching white hands suggest they are also service reps too.