Opinions Needed for Scambay(ebay)

[manscony]

I sold a watch on ebay and now the buyer is wanting to return the watch.He says since the watch doesnt have the original crown he should be able to return it.I never described the watch or disclosed anywhere that it did,but yet i did take a close picture of the crown so that bidders could get an overall view of the item.Nor did i ever say the watch was 100% original.Ebay says he has to have documentation from the watch maker(RW) to prove its not original in order to get his refund.
Whats your take on this?

[powerfunk]

Frankly I find it a little odd for you to be dissing "Scambay" when you're the one who sold a Rolex with an aftermarket crown and didn't mention it.

Yes, you took pictures, and the buyer should've been more diligent. What kind of seller do you want to be, though? I'd accept the return -- I think it's the right thing to do, and I certainly wouldn't risk my eBay feedback over it. Hope it all works out OK for you. Crowns are really not expensive anyway.

[unclesallie]

I agree with Rob, although frankly, I would go a step farther....what makes you think
anyone but an absolute dead-bang expert would be able to identify an aftermarket
crown on the winding stem? If it were me, I would demand a full return with return of the watch.

[rmurphy]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Frankly I find it a little odd for you to be dissing "Scambay" when you're the one who sold a Rolex with an aftermarket crown and didn't mention it.

Yes, you took pictures, and the buyer should've been more diligent. What kind of seller do you want to be, though? I'd accept the return -- I think it's the right thing to do, and I certainly wouldn't risk my eBay feedback over it. Hope it all works out OK for you. Crowns are really not expensive anyway.

My sentiments exactly! That's why I can't bring myself to buy a watch off of eBay. I buy quite a bit of stuff from there and have sold a fair amount of stuff as well and I take my feedback seriously. It's your character that's at stake here. I value my character.


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[Lisa]

Sorry... you should have disclosed the facts and left zero doubts. I would have been very upset as a buyer.

[Presa canary]

I have to agree with funk. Not sure why eBay needs to get hit here. That was real nice and all of you to take a good picture, but a thorough description of something as major as a unoriginal rolex part certainly would have been nice. Give the refund, re list the watch and disclose everything you know about it.

[donas]

I absolutely think you should refund the money.

It's people selling aftermarket items and not disclosing it that causes the name "Scambay" to come about. I have purchased several watches here on TRF and I don't believe any of them stated "100% original", thats inferred since the seller didn't state otherwise.

Just curious, is it an obvious after market crown? How did the buyer realize it?

[69mach351]

I agree with the crowd. The only reason not to disclose it is because you know you may not get as much for the watch. Sure there are a lot of people out there that do it and never hear about it, but you got caught. I would just have him send it back and give him a refund. There is needs to be a level of trust between the buyer and seller. The buyer should disclose what he or she knows, and be willing to make it right if there is an oversight. The seller should have a reasonable idea and expectation of what they are getting - if they are buying used they should not expect it to be as new.

[manscony]

The watch was a Raymond Weil Freelancer.For those of you who arent familiar the Raymond Weil comes with an R/W on the crown.I took the picture of it showing a smooth crown with no initials on it.I dont disagree that writing it in the description may have made it easier for him to see.But i also noticed that this seller had 3 Raymond Weils for sale when bidding on mine.I was just curious to see what everyone thought.

[Lion]

I also agree with the majority(actually with all responses)here. I believe if you are going to 'Sell' on Ebay then I believe it's your responsibility to disclose and describe all facts about the item you are selling. So learn from this experience, give the person a refund upon the return of Your Merchandise and if you do plan on reselling the item then do a full disclosure!!!

[mailman]

Whenever I've sold something on eBay I always give full disclosure in the ad. It isn't worth my feedback taking a hit and having it stay there. And let's face it, it's the honest and right thing to do. In this case it might have eliminated this type of problem. I'd have him send it back, give him a full refund plus his cost to ship.

[Cc1966]

Originally Posted by mailman

Whenever I've sold something on eBay I always give full disclosure in the ad. It isn't worth my feedback taking a hit and having it stay there. And let's face it, it's the honest and right thing to do. In this case it might have eliminated this type of problem. I'd have him send it back, give him a full refund plus his cost to ship.

Yep, it's the right thing to do!

[Wesley Crusher]

I don't think you're obligated to accept a return since you didn't actually lie about the watch and, according to you, clearly showed the crown, which the buyer should have noticed was not original. Having said that, I do think that accepting a return would be the honest thing to do.

[Lisa]

I refunded a buyer's money on an old-style Explorer II I sold last year. I had posted numerous, large, clear photos from all possible angles and described and showed every scratch, ding and flaw I could find. After the buyer received the watch, he realized it was 40mm and not 42, like the new style Explorer II, and he asked for a refund. It never occurred to me that a buyer wouldn't see that obviously this wasn't the newer, 42mm style of Expy. II, and I didn't explicitly state the dimensions of the watch,or that it was the old style. I figured it was obvious. But I gave him the refund. I don't really think he was being fair to me, but deep down I knew I would sleep better at night... whether he will, is up to his conscience.

[wantonebad]

e-bay has changed the game a little, it's not just "buyer beware" it's now also "seller beware!". In this data driven era, and with the ability to master just about any subject you set your mind or money too, you can't presume to pull a fast one by anyone. Your being naive if you think today's consumer is naive... if that make sense I think I just confused myself... but you get my point.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by manscony

The watch was a Raymond Weil Freelancer.For those of you who arent familiar the Raymond Weil comes with an R/W on the crown.I took the picture of it showing a smooth crown with no initials on it.I dont disagree that writing it in the description may have made it easier for him to see.But i also noticed that this seller had 3 Raymond Weils for sale when bidding on mine.I was just curious to see what everyone thought.

My thoughts are that you knew full well that you were intentionally omitting information and you decided that it was "buyer beware" hoping that the buyer either wouldn't know or wouldn't care.

Not sure what the RW crown would cost, but that might be a starting point if the buyer is negotiating.. Crown's aren't terribly expensive..

[azguy]

Originally Posted by Tools

Not sure what the RW crown would cost, but that might be a starting point if the buyer is negotiating.. Crown's aren't terribly expensive..

I agree, if he's happy with the watch and clearly he's going to have to have someone inspect the watch, per E-bay, offer to have the crown replaced and save the deal

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by 69mach351

The only reason not to disclose it is because you know you may not get as much for the watch. Sure there are a lot of people out there that do it and never hear about it, but you got caught. I would just have him send it back and give him a refund.

My thoughts exactly.

OP, your post reads like you are attempting to justify deception by omission.

Give the buyer back his money and post a more honest (full disclosure) sales ad next time. Surely you know it's the right thing to do.

My opinion...

[Lion]

Originally Posted by mailman

Whenever I've sold something on eBay I always give full disclosure in the ad. It isn't worth my feedback taking a hit and having it stay there. And let's face it, it's the honest and right thing to do. In this case it might have eliminated this type of problem. I'd have him send it back, give him a full refund plus his cost to ship.

Good point Paulie...do the right thing/gesture and refund his postage to return the watch to you as well.....

As that is just a Good-Will Gesture and if you continue to sell on Ebay...I'm sure you will receive no negative Feed-Back from this episode and will continue to receive positive responses when you do decide to sell something again!!!

Good Luck to you and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!
Take care.....Leo

[Brenngun]

If you don't disclose what you know when listing the watch then you're responsible to make the buyer happy up to and including a return & full refund.

[Aggiez28]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I refunded a buyer's money on an old-style Explorer II I sold last year. I had posted numerous, large, clear photos from all possible angles and described and showed every scratch, ding and flaw I could find. After the buyer received the watch, he realized it was 40mm and not 42, like the new style Explorer II, and he asked for a refund. It never occurred to me that a buyer wouldn't see that obviously this wasn't the newer, 42mm style of Expy. II, and I didn't explicitly state the dimensions of the watch,or that it was the old style. I figured it was obvious. But I gave him the refund. I don't really think he was being fair to me, but deep down I knew I would sleep better at night... whether he will, is up to his conscience.

wow, I probably wouldnt have done that return.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by Aggiez28

wow, I probably wouldnt have done that return.

And, after all that, would you believe he asked me to recommend him here as a good buyer? Um, I didn't do it. The guys here at TRF who buy and sell regularly must have some amazing stories to tell. People can and will do mind-boggling things.

[Old Expat Beast]

Full disclosure is the best policy. I would be asking for a return also. And Lisa, good for you for taking the return. I would have thought twice.

[Tudor66]

Dealing with returned items appears to be part of the cost of doing business in my opinion. I sell a few watches each month, and there are always 1 or 2 returns, and I have heard every reason/excuse under the sun.

I always return the money if the buyer isn't happy for any reason.... Watch collecting is my hobby, If I did this for a living I might be more strict on the return policy. Then again, If I did this for a living I would be broke...

[K7Baixo2]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I refunded a buyer's money on an old-style Explorer II I sold last year. I had posted numerous, large, clear photos from all possible angles and described and showed every scratch, ding and flaw I could find. After the buyer received the watch, he realized it was 40mm and not 42, like the new style Explorer II, and he asked for a refund. It never occurred to me that a buyer wouldn't see that obviously this wasn't the newer, 42mm style of Expy. II, and I didn't explicitly state the dimensions of the watch,or that it was the old style. I figured it was obvious. But I gave him the refund. I don't really think he was being fair to me, but deep down I knew I would sleep better at night... whether he will, is up to his conscience.

Amazing how that works. Props for taking that step even though you really didn't want to.

I did the same with a small, model guitar that was given to VIPs as part of a Hard Rock promotion in Sao Paulo. This thing was beautiful - a red & while Stratocaster model, about 10 inches long - in a small display case.

Buyer's complaint? It was a model and not a functional guitar. I returned his funds less shipping and then re-listed it. Life's too short to deal with silly people.

[Bangel]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I refunded a buyer's money on an old-style Explorer II I sold last year. I had posted numerous, large, clear photos from all possible angles and described and showed every scratch, ding and flaw I could find. After the buyer received the watch, he realized it was 40mm and not 42, like the new style Explorer II, and he asked for a refund. It never occurred to me that a buyer wouldn't see that obviously this wasn't the newer, 42mm style of Expy. II, and I didn't explicitly state the dimensions of the watch,or that it was the old style. I figured it was obvious. But I gave him the refund. I don't really think he was being fair to me, but deep down I knew I would sleep better at night... whether he will, is up to his conscience.

Lisa, you are a good and honourable person.

Long may you continue to sleep well at night!

[Touring]

Originally Posted by Lisa

I refunded a buyer's money on an old-style Explorer II I sold last year. I had posted numerous, large, clear photos from all possible angles and described and showed every scratch, ding and flaw I could find. After the buyer received the watch, he realized it was 40mm and not 42, like the new style Explorer II, and he asked for a refund. It never occurred to me that a buyer wouldn't see that obviously this wasn't the newer, 42mm style of Expy. II, and I didn't explicitly state the dimensions of the watch,or that it was the old style. I figured it was obvious. But I gave him the refund. I don't really think he was being fair to me, but deep down I knew I would sleep better at night... whether he will, is up to his conscience.

Wow! Completely the buyer's own fault for not noticing. I would have hesitated to refund the buyer, particularly because of all the risks involved in taking a return. Unless the reference was misrepresented (216570 vs 16570), then a big to you for being an upstanding person!

[zama]

Yep I think given you are on a forum of watch lovers, I think few will argue if you knew there was something not right that you did not disclose it, they may still have purchased it in any case. Having sold many items, I have learned even with Antique furniture that is 100+ years old you should try and identify even small scratches and imperfections, as all buyers will take a different interpretation on things and I value my 100% feedback, as much for peace of mind as trading implications.

[manscony]

As im finding out Ebay isnt an auction site anymore its a retail site like most bog box retailers.Decided you dont want something and Ebay will side with the buyer.Some information that I dont think I included was that the BUYER had the watch for 8 days before he decided to open the case.Ebay rules are:If buyer doesnt escalate or prove that its not original then they will return funds back to me.The proof has to come from a Boutique that sells the watch or the watch maker itself.Ebay says the pictures are sufficient since they were taken directly of the CROWN.They also tell me that many buyers get buyers remorse and make up many reasons for wanting to return something.Its for sure not like it used to be when they started.I used to sell phones on Ebay and never had any problems like this.You could actually buy something on Ebay and use it for 14 days and decide you dont want it and get your money back.
Thanks for everyones opinion.

[Presa canary]

eBay is %100 still a auction site... Sure you can buy it now, or bid on a item that is up for auctions with other bidders. Regardless, sounds to me like you're making excuses. IMO you should do what'd you would like done to you. Given full disclosure of what you're buying. Plain and simple