Question for Moderators

[ErikAalto]

I see people routinely charging an extra 3% for PayPal fees, but this is illegal per the PayPal user agreement - specifically for credit cards. I know there are a minimum of two options for using PayPal - it either draws from your bank account directly, or charges to a credit card. Does TRF have a stance on this issue?

I understand the interest in not losing 3% on a several thousand dollar sale, but I still disagree with sellers charging more for using a certain payment service.


"No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge" . You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods)." (From PayPal)

[ErikAalto]

I just checked again, specifically charging surcharges disqualifies sellers from the Seller Protection Policy.

11.3 Qualification Requirements. In order to qualify for coverage under the Seller Protection Policy, you must meet the following requirements:

1. You must have a Verified Business or Verified Premier Account at the time of the transaction,

2. The transaction must be between a US, UK or Canadian buyer and a US, UK or Canadian seller,

3. The payment must be listed as Seller Protection Policy Eligible on the Transaction Details page, or cleared by PayPal through Payment Review,

4. You must accept a single payment from one PayPal Account for the purchase,

5. You must not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal,

6. You must ship the purchased item to the address listed on the Transaction Details page,

7. You must ship the item to the buyer within 7 Days of receiving payment,

8. You must have trackable online proof of delivery from an approved shipper to the address on the Transaction Details page. For transactions involving $250.00 USD or more, you must provide a proof of receipt that was signed or otherwise acknowledged by the buyer and can be viewed online, (If you paid in a currency other than US dollars, the following amounts apply for this section: $325.00 CAD, €200.00 EUR, £150.00 GBP, ¥28000.00 JPY, $350.00 AUD, 330.00 CHF, 1,600.00 NOK, 2,000.00 SEK, 1,500.00 DKK, 800.00 PLN, 55000.00 HUF, 6,000.00 CZK, $400.00 SGD, $2,000.00 HKD, $380.00 NZD), and

9. You must respond to PayPals requests for information within the time period PayPal specifies.

[Robb]

Well....Im not a MOD but the people selling watches here are not "dealers" or "merchants". They are strictly individuals selling personal watches so I dont think this rule would apply!!!!!!

Other than that, if you dont agree with sellers charging the 3% then why not pay CASH?? JMO

[Prince]

I don't think TRF has any stand on PayPal at all, but it seems you have answered your own question, Erik; An eBay seller must not levy a surcharge for accepting PayPal, and doing so disqualifies sellers from the Seller Protection Policy. Just that simple.

[Rockrolex]

In answer to your question, all sales on TRF are private. TRF only offers a mechanism to facilitate transactions between potential sellers and potential buyers. TRF takes no responsibility for and has no liability with respect to private transactions between members.

However a seller and buyer want to conduct a transaction is between them alone.

Does that answer your question?

[TempoKing]

Of cource PayPal and e-Bay do not want a surcharge for the sale, but this is
based on the assumption that a shop usually makes from around double to triple
from what an item costs, so a small credit card fee should not be charged as extra
to you and rightfully so.
I am currently selling a Submariner 16610 M serial with the new engraved chapter
at a discount.
If you decide to buy and pay via PayPal I would want a 2.9% surcharge on the final
amount...WHY..?
Because I can not afford to pay PayPal 140 dollars that they will charge me,
I clearly state cash or Bank wire transfer, so if you want to pay with your
credit card via PayPal I am afraid that the fee must come from you.

[GrandDaddy]

Originally Posted by Robb

Well....Im not a MOD but the people selling watches here are not "dealers" or "merchants". They are strictly individuals selling personal watches so I dont think this rule would apply!!!!!!

Other than that, if you dont agree with sellers charging the 3% then why not pay CASH?? JMO

I disagree. They may not admit it but there are members selling three or four watches a month and if they are not classified as "dealers or mechants" I don't know what to call them. There are the enthusiasts (who will flip a watch every now and then) and then there are the dealers or merchants (who sell watches for a profit and for a living). I think they know who they are.

[Welshwatchman]

Ed nailed the question in the 5th post.

Stone cold dead.

[arttay10]

Irrespective of your stance on this -

If you don't agree with the terms - don't buy the item !!

Simple.. why moan about it

[Felly Jr.]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Ed nailed the question in the 5th post.

Stone cold dead.

Paul, that sounds like your "Final Answer".

[DoxaDavid]

Originally Posted by arttay10

Irrespective of your stance on this -

If you don't agree with the terms - don't buy the item !!

Simple.. why moan about it

X2. If you don't want to pay the PP fee, either negotiate it or don't buy the goods. It's offed by most as a convince, not a necessity.

[Prince]

Originally Posted by Felly Jr.

Paul, that sounds like your "Final Answer".

[karmatp]

Maybe everyone should just start charging a extra 3%..

[CPCC]

3% will be cheaper than the upcoming Rolex price increase. So 3% is a steal

[applebook]

Maybe Paypal shouldn't charge 3% of thousands of dollars.

[Tools]

I hate to repeat things, but as Ed says, we have no connection with the buyer or the seller, nor do we know what the final outcome or method of payment is..

We have a For Sale board as a convenience for the membership, but the buyer must realise that we do not endorse or conduct a background check on any seller.

A buyer must assure themselves that the transaction is being done to their satisfaction...

Personally, if the seller wants additional fees........I'll move on.....the deal just isn't that good..

[kings4sap]

By the way, if you have ever tried to initiate the Paypal Seller Protection Policy you would know how absolutely useless it is. It is all smoke and I long for the day when someone takes them to the wood-pile on it. I reluctantly allow Paypal when I sell on eBay but their day is coming as well since they have chosen to blackball most, if not all, other payment vehicles. The natives (sellers) are getting restless over there at eBay and I would expect changes in the future. Paypal can charge the fees they do because of a lack of competition. Another alternative as a seller is to give free shipping if your buyer doesn't use Paypal.

K4S

[ErikAalto]

Thanks for all the responses!

I was merely curious about this whole issue.

I've dealt with other buying/selling forums - and they strictly prohibit members for charging the extra 3% if PayPal is the method of payment.

I never meant to come across as "moaning" or complaining about the PayPal charges, I'm actually not even in the market for watches right now. I was more curious than anything, seeing as the other forum I speak of is extremely adamant about this policy. Every selling post is screened thoroughly by moderators before it is allowed to be viewed by the public (or membership).

I have never asked for PayPal fees in the past, more so because I feel that it is a bit stingy to complain about losing $5-$10 on a sale. I can, however, justify the charge on a $5000-$10000 purchase - because you're creeping into the several hundred dollar range.

Once again, I appreciate all the responses, thanks to those that clarified this matter for me.

- Erik