The Jumbo and the Sub... 1972 vs 2014.

[lmcgbaj]

In 1972, when the first AP Royal Oak (5402ST) was created, it was a very risky proposition for AP because the watch was stainless steel and costing more than gold timepieces that AP or other manufacturers were producing.

The price of the Royal Oak 5402ST was 3200 Swiss Francs (~3.6k USD). That was a lot of money back then for a Stainless Steel watch, especially when high end timepieces were supposed to be made of gold.

Back then, the closest competitor for a SS luxury sport watch was the Rolex Submariner, which retailed at 280 Swiss Francs (~320 USD).

So the Royal Oak Jumbo was 11 times more expensive that the Rolex Submariner.

Fast Forward to 2014

AP Royal Oak Jumbo 15202 which is the closest cousin of the original 5402ST retails at $22,700 USD while the Rolex Submariner retails at $8,550.00 USD.

The gap has closed to the point that the Sub is only 2.5 times more expensive than the Jumbo !!!

So, by the original proportion, an APRO Jumbo should have cost 94k USD or the Sub should cost 2k USD.

Food for thought. What is your take ?

Was the original APRO just overly expensive for its time and the Rolex just caught up with it?

Is the Sub overpriced? The current APRO under evaluated?

[Cru Jones]

The Jumbo and PP 5711 were a class apart as the first true luxury SS sports watches. The Submariner was no competition, both literally and figuratively.

These days, the Submariner gets mentioned in the same paragraph on price alone, IMO. That's not a diss of the Submariner, just a comment on the differences between the two.

[subtona]

love them both and happy to have ~each!

[martinr]

Both great but totally different watches. And they are both expensive but they fly off the shelves so not overpriced based on sales.

[Fiery]

I think what happened is Rolex got a lot closer to AP lately, in terms of average selling price. In the long run (let's say in 2 decades from now) Rolex may just catch AP and rush further to catch Patek. Rolex will definitely need more luxurious pieces and more complicated pieces along the way, e.g. a Pt Sub, Pt GMT and a perpetual calendar.

As for how things worked 40 years ago, well... AP almost went bankrupt because of the Royal Oak. The original RO was too fresh, and had an outrageous asking price for a steel sports watch. But the RO slowly saved and elevated AP, along with another very risky decision: the Offshore line. AP's history in the past few decades were all about taking huge risks, but in the end they came out great. I think the RO Jumbo is priced just right today, but the brand's lineup is quite empty if you substract the hundreds of RO derivatives from it. AP will need more iconic pieces, they need to introduce a new model (or a new line of models) to diversify their collection.

[PADI_Diver]

I think rolex found that people would be willing to pay around 8k by slowly raising their prices but ap had to increase and a very slow rate because no one would pay 95k for a steel watch or even half that for a steel watch. My point is that there is a large market between 2-10k for steel watches but much higher than that and people start expecting wg, or yg


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[PADI_Diver]

According to inflation an AP should be a 20.5k and a sub should be about 1,800


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[padi56]

Both watches in the real world are over priced you pay a huge proportion for the name on the dial.Now myself not a fan of any of the RO range good movements but the case style does nothing for me, and RO IMHO is very overpriced even more so than Rolex.

[Jack T]

Over the years, the market had a lot more tolerance for price increases to Rolex than for AP, in my opinion.

[Le Chef]

Originally Posted by Fiery

AP almost went bankrupt because of the Royal Oak.

The truth is the Royal Oak saved AP from bankruptcy - without it the company would have gone under.

As to Rolex challenging the likes of AP, Lange, Patek etc in terms of quality - I don't think so. Their business model is centered on mass production of almost 1million watches a year and Patek's somewhere around 3% of that total. Everything Patek does is built around hand finishing and all the labor that involves. Rolex would either have to dramatically cut production volume or hire and train thousands of watch makers to deliver the levels of hand finishing Patek and others require. Rolex should stick to what they're very good at, which is mass marketing.

[Presa canary]

The sub is over priced. Period

[Presa canary]

The jumbo is over priced. Period

[Chewbacca]

none are under or overpriced if they're selling but AP owes gerald genta a huge thank-you as that watch saved their bacon.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Presa canary

The sub is over priced. Period

don't agree … no one is pushed into paying the price, it is all by our own choice.

Originally Posted by Presa canary

The jumbo is over priced. Period

don't agree more strongly here…

i think this particular watch, the Jumbo, offers more than any competitor out there… of course all things are relative, but when you combine such an amazing movement with the finest case finishing i have ever seen, not to mention a dial that is mechanically cut on a pantograph and its revolutionary history and link to the same, there is no one who comes close imho, to the value offered in the 15202 Jumbo.

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

none are under or overpriced if they're selling but AP owes gerald genta a huge thank-you as that watch saved their bacon.

indeed sir did the rest of us a great service as well bringing this offering to our reach