GMT Rolex in the Ed Brown ad

[nhdblfan]

Nice to see Rollies in other ads for high end items (EB's are the "Rolex" of fine 1911's) Thats a Executive Elite and a GMT Pepsi (?) in that first to the left photo correct?


http://edbrown.com/htmlos.cgi/customhandguns.htm)

[Stef_Call]

The power of advertising to idiots eh ? A gun beside a Rolex. Wow. Makes me want to go out and buy an Ed Brown right now :)

[Stef_Call]

BTW. Your link doesn't work. The URL is incorrect.
This is a link to the pic I think your referring to

http://www.edbrown.com/start.cgi/customhandguns.htm

[nhdblfan]

Hmm worked before,
thanks for the link update.
Not sure about the "idiot" BS but hey we are here to enjoy our hobby and not judge other freedoms they have and use,maybe I was wrong.

[Stef_Call]

We sure are. Im just not a gun fan !!! Live and let live
Just dont shoot me

I wonder do Rolex support such an association ???

[nhdblfan]

'Im just not a gun fan ''

hey no problem,as long as you don't try and take away mine or call me,or others who enjoy them an "idiot" we are ok

[applebook]

"Buy a gun, get a rebate for a free Rolex."

"Nothing like wearing a Rolex while blowing something away."

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

(...)Live and let live (...)

I feel like thread highjacking!

Much better than guns is this post about watches sported in James Bond movies (see highlight in bold):

Originally Posted by padi56

Although the cinematic different James Bonds have worn Rolex, Omega,and Seiko watches,to many the choice of which watch Bond wears can only come form his origins. Undoubtedly, the origins of James Bond lie with Ian Fleming and Bond's earliest incarnation in the cinema today.

No one knows exactly why Ian Fleming chose a Rolex for the wrist of James Bond. Perhaps Fleming was impressed by the fact that during World War II, British prisoners of war could write Rolex and receive a watch free of charge delivered directly to their prison camp. Perhaps it was for Rolex's legendary toughness and dependability, or perhaps it was because Fleming wore a Rolex himself. Whatever the reason, Ian Fleming chose a Rolex for his most famous gentleman spy with a license to kill and as such should be considered the main brand of the James Bond watch.

But just what model of Rolex Fleming chose for his spy, he never makes quite clear. Like his clothing choices for Bond, Fleming is vague about the model of Rolex that Bond wears. One of the few references Fleming gives can be found in Chapter 16 of On Her Majesty's Secret Service when Bond prepares to use his Rolex as a knuckle duster: When Bond was brought to the large screen however, the producers clearly had to pick their own model.

According to the book James Bond the Legacy Bond would not just drink champagne, it would be Dom Perignon, and "he could not just wear a watch, it needed to be a Rolex".Now when Rolex declined to provide one of their watches for the production of the film And the budget did not allow for the purchase of one, Cubby Broccoli took his off his wrist and gave it to a member of the art department for use in the film. That Rolex was a Submariner with a very large crown, no crown guards, a coin edge bezel and on a black leather strap.

Many vintage Rolex collectors call all early Submariners without crown guards the James Bond Submariner, while others in the watch collecting field believe, that the watch Connery wore in Dr. No was the Rolex Submariner model 6538. Still other collectors believe that the Submariner Connery wore was more than likely one of four models they are the 6200, 6538A, thick cased 6538 and the 5510. Now IMHO I believe that it is impossible to nail it down to one of the four models, and I'll get into the specifics later.

All four models share the same thick case, a large crown marked Brevet (from the French word Brevette meaning patented), a coin edge non ratcheted bezel, an acrylic crystal, a depth rating of 200m/660ft and Mercedes hands. I should add that only the "thick cased" shoulder-less Submariners had the large winding crown. now, it should also be noted that the 6538 existed first as a thin cased model with a small crown. It became a thick cased model as the 6538A and was available alongside the 6200.

Once the thin cased versions were gone, the 6538A became the 6538 remaining the same until it and the 6200 were replaced by the 5510,well thats Rolex for you confusing as ever.. Since Sean Connery as James Bond only wore the thick cased Submariner (evident by the large crown), none of the thin cased, small crown so called James Bond Submariners without crown guards will be discussed.

IMO the only proper Sean Connery James Bond Submariner

Is one of the thick cased Submariners with the large crown first appeared on Connery's wrist in Dr. No, From Russia With love, Goldfinger, and Thunderball. It is assumed that Connery also wore this watch in You Only Live Twice, but I don't recall seeing it in that movie and to my knowledge it is not in the movie. If someone can direct me to a scene that shows otherwise, I'll happily revise this. By analysing close ups of the Connery Submariner, it is clear that the watch has the big crown with no crown guard,and has a gilt dial , and has Mercedes hands. The bezel insert is the non-graduated version, meaning there are no extra minute markings between 0 and 15 and the bezel pearl is in the centre of a silver triangle. Later versions of the Submariner had the extra minute markings between the 0 and 15 including the ones without crown guards. These observations are important because the watch has characteristics of a 6200, a 6538A, a thick cased 6538 or even a 5510 (depending on whether you discern the depth rating of Connery's watch as white or gilt) despite what so called experts say about it being only a 6538.

To me the proper Bond Submariner, has always had contradictory characteristics with respect to the exact model. In fact I have never seen another untouched version exactly like it. Firstly, the non-graduated bezel insert is that of the earliest thick cased, large crown Submariners, the 6200. However, on the mid 50's version of 6200, there is only one line of printing on the lower part of the dial, the word "SUBMARINER" in gilt, because although it was rated to a depth of 200m/660ft it did not yet appear on the dial.

The late 50's 6200, 6538A and 6538 did have the two lines of printing on the lower part of the dial (chronometer versions of the 6538A and thick cased 6538 had 4 lines) and the depth rating was printed in white while the word "SUBMARINER" was in gilt. As Now On the 5510, late 50's models had both the depth rating and the word "SUBMARINER" in the same colour, gilt. To further make things even harder, the late 50's 6200, 6538A, 6538 and 5510 had graduated bezel inserts, and the triangle containing the luminous pearl was red. As I said before, the Connery Submariner has a non-graduated bezel insert and the triangle containing the pearl was silver.

So what does all that mean, probably not much. The fact of the matter is that at this time Rolex often used up older parts even when they went to a new model. So it would be entirely possible to have 6538A with a 6200 bezel insert. Also, it's quite possible that a 6538 or 5510 could have been serviced during its ownership by a service centre having older parts which means that a 6538 or a 5510 might end up having a 6200 bezel insert.

So unless the Broccoli family, who are rumoured to have the original watch, furnishes the exact model number, we may never know the exact model number of the Connery Bond Submariner. However with the wealth of parts available, it is possible to achieve the same look using the 6200, 6538A, thick cased 6538 or the 5510 Submariner because they all share the same case and big Brevet crown. But, be warned, some collectors and myself hate to restore or change watches. And IMHO its better to have an original beat up watch, than a pristine restored one. Luckily, there is a building trend now toward gentle restoration.

Movements in the Different Models

The 6200, 6538A, 6538 and the 5510 all had different movements. The 6200 had the A296, while the 6538A and thick cased 6538 had the 1030. The movement in the 5510 was the 1530 (although some military versions had the 1520 movement).Rolex at this time done a lot of strange things,and used any part movement to make a complete watch.


The 1530 and 1520 movement are the same movements used in the later 5513 Submariners of Lazenby and Moore fame. The 15XX series of movements are considered among the best Rolex ever made, so the 5510 with the old style case coupled with the newer movement make it the most wearable of the Connery Bond Submariners, however it was made in very low numbers and is considered quite rare,and now very collectible.

The Bond Strap

In Dr. No and From Russia With Love, Connery wears his Submariner on a crocodile or perhaps alligator strap; if you look at close-ups of the strap, you'll see striations consistent with a crocodile or alligator skin. However, by Goldfinger and later Thunderball, Connery sports his Submariner on an 18mm black cloth NATO/MOD type strap with twin grey service stripes. So, why the change? Although this is conjecture on my part, it is possible that the producers became aware of the early military Submariner that was available to the Royal and Canadian Navies. By extension, I believe the nylon strap was chosen to give the on-screen Bond a military bearing, especially to those in the know.

The early military Submariner was differently optioned than civilian Submariners and was, among other things, fitted with fixed bars between the lugs instead of spring bars to accommodate a cloth NATO/MOD type grey strap. The reasons for such straps were that they were anti-reflective, and easily cut off, if necessary. For this reason some have speculated that the Submariner that Connery wears in Goldfinger and Thunderball was an early military Submariner, however I don't believe that is true. When you look at close-ups of Connery's Submariner, you can clearly see that the strap is attached with spring bars between 20mm lugs as evidenced by holes in the lugs. A military Submariner would have filled lug holes.

George Lazenby, Roger Moore and the Rolex 5513 Submariner

In On Her Majesty's Secret Service, George Lazenby dons a Rolex Submariner 5513. It has been written that Lazenby wanted the part of Bond so bad that he went out and bought his own Rolex and got one of Connery's suits from Anthony Sinclair. It's quite possible that the watch Lazenby wore in his first outing as Bond was his own purchase. The Lazeby Submariner had crown guards, and a metal riveted bracelet.

In Roger Moore's first and second outings as Bond, he wears a 5513 Rolex Submariner. Unlike Lazenby's Submariner, Moore's Rolex is seen in more detail, at least in Live and Let Die. In this instance the dial has white printing and inducer's. It should be noted however that the depth rating on Moore's Submariner is shown above the word Submariner on the lower part of the dial rather than below it. The depth also appears as 660ft=200m rather than 200m=660ft. This is important because 5513's are available with the alternate dial printing as described. The reason for these differences had to do with the regions for which the Submariners were made and the years in which they were produced.

Moore's Submariner also had a bezel with a saw tooth edge. The original bezel was re-cut to accommodate the watch, with a little movie magic, functioning as a saw. The hyper-intensified magnet function of the watch was shown to be activated when the watch induces turned red. Separate 5513 Submariners were re-worked by the prop department to accommodate these functions. When Moore returned in The Man With The Golden Gun he was again seen wearing a 5513, however the watch had no special function used in the movie and is easily missed. Moore began sporting Seiko's in all subsequent outings as Bond probably because of a better endorsement deal on the part of Seiko.

Movements of the Rolex 5513

The movement in the 5513 Submariner is either the 1530 or 1520. Again, the type of movement is dependant on where and when they were made. The 1520 was the less expensive version having fewer jewels. As I said before, the 15XX series of movements are considered some of the best movements that Rolex ever used. For this reason, the 5513 is probably one of the best vintage Submariners for everyday wear.

Timothy Dalton and the Rolex 16800/168000 Submariner

When Timothy Dalton assumed the role of James Bond he was wearing a Rolex Submariner with a date function, the first Bond ever to do so and also the last Bond to date to wear a Rolex. Because of the time frame when Dalton made his Bond movies, it is likely that Dalton wore the 16800 and later perhaps the 168000 Submariner.

From what I've been able to ascertain, the only difference between these two models is the upgrade in stainless steel from316 L to mixed 316L and 904L grade SS,and crystal.
__________________

[nhdblfan]

Originally Posted by applebook

"Buy a gun, get a rebate for a free Rolex."

"Nothing like wearing a Rolex while blowing something away."

Like James Bond,the early one of course

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by nhdblfan

'Im just not a gun fan ''

hey no problem,as long as you don't try and take away mine or call me,or others who enjoy them an "idiot" we are ok

My Idiot comment was toward the advertising of the gun you were referring to.. Not you ???
Does putting that gun beside a Rolex make it more desirable to you ?? I think that would be idiotic ??
At what point did I refer to trying to take your gun away ?? Wowww Nelly.... Take your finger off the trigger

I hope you and your "piece" have a long and happy life together

[johnnybravo1210]

I would keep my gun next to my Rolex too, it kinda says "you touch it, you die"

[nhdblfan]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

We sure are. Im just not a gun fan !!! Live and let live
Just dont shoot me

I wonder do Rolex support such an association ???

Sound to me like you have the problem here

I will do this slowly so you can understand
I have do not problem with you not wanting to own a gun
I have a very big problem when you think I should not or think those that do are "idiots


Back off your way way out of line,if you don't like guns then move on and read posts you like.

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

I feel like thread highjacking!

Much better than guns is this post about watches sported in James Bond movies (see highlight in bold):

Wow Some Hijack Bo.
Have you seen the latest Bond Movie "Casino Royale". The Blatant Omega not Rolex comment . Suppose they need to get something for their sponsorship

[krism06]

Originally Posted by nhdblfan

Nice to see Rollies in other ads for high end items (EB's are the "Rolex" of fine 1911's) Thats a Executive Elite and a GMT Pepsi (?) in that first to the left photo correct?


http://edbrown.com/htmlos.cgi/customhandguns.htm)

Well from one gun fan to another, I like both the gun and watch. I have a Kimber Grand Raptor II and an SD. The Grand Raptor is similar to the Ed Brown snakeskin. I really like it. Maybe one of these days I can afford a true custom. Don't let the anti gun comments get you down. I took offense also. No matter how you spin it, it implied anyone that appreciated guns was an idiot.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

Wow Some Hijack Bo.
Have you seen the latest Bond Movie "Casino Royale". The Blatant Omega not Rolex comment . Suppose they need to get something for their sponsorship

Yeah, I sure did make a note of that conversation in the movie.

"Nice watch!.......Rolex?"

"No, OMEGA!".

Can you say product placement??

How's the weather in Ireland, btw.?

[nhdblfan]

Originally Posted by krism06

Well from one gun fan to another, I like both the gun and watch. I have a Kimber Grand Raptor II and an SD. The Grand Raptor is similar to the Ed Brown snakeskin. I really like it. Maybe one of these days I can afford a true custom. Don't let the anti gun comments get you down. I took offense also. No matter how you spin it, it implied anyone that appreciated guns was an idiot.

Thank you ! I had hoped I was among friends and fellow collectors

I have been toying with a Kimber CDP those and the EB's are so sweet and go well with those that appreciate fine watchs like Rolex and fine guns !
Thank you Krism06

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by nhdblfan

Sound to me like you have the problem here

I will do this slowly so you can understand
I have not problem with you not wanting to own a gun
I have a very big problem when you thin I should not or think those that do are "idoits"


Back off your way way out of line

See.... Now you are replying to comments that I didn't even make?
What comments did I make that any of your comments above refer to ???
When did I state you shouldn't have a gun ??

I will repeat for you.

"My Idiot comment was toward the advertising of the gun you were referring to.. Not you ???"

If this is going to continue at least please get a grip of what I am saying.
Or how about this !!!
Lets live and let live & get back to the watches ?????

[krism06]

Originally Posted by nhdblfan

Thank you ! I had hoped I was amoung friends and fellow collectors

I have been toying with a Kimber CDP those and the EB's are so sweet and go well with those that appreciate fine watchs like Rolex and fine guns !
Thank you Krism06

Not a problem. I make no distinction between my Berettas, my Kimber, my Sako, my Weatherby and my Breitling, Omegas and Rolexes. They are finely crafted tools that provide me much enjoyment. I grew up hunting and my wife and I still really enjoy skeet, trap, five stand, and target shooting. I rarely have a chance to hunt anymore and see no difference between the shooting sports and golf.

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Yeah, I sure did make a note of that conversation in the movie.

"Nice watch!.......Rolex?"

"No, OMEGA!".

Can you say product placement??

How's the weather in Ireland, btw.?

It was so blatant it was almost comical..
It's Ireland Bo. Weather is always pants . At least we have the summer to look forward to.. Only rains 5 days a week then :)

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by krism06

Well from one gun fan to another, I like both the gun and watch. I have a Kimber Grand Raptor II and an SD. The Grand Raptor is similar to the Ed Brown snakeskin. I really like it. Maybe one of these days I can afford a true custom. Don't let the anti gun comments get you down. I took offense also. No matter how you spin it, it implied anyone that appreciated guns was an idiot.

Geeeez.
As I stated

"My Idiot comment was toward the advertising of the gun you were referring to.. Not you ???
Does putting that gun beside a Rolex make it more desirable to you ?? I think that would be idiotic ??"

Shall we move on ????? No ?

[Pete On Tour]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

My Idiot comment was toward the advertising of the gun you were referring to.. Not you ???
Does putting that gun beside a Rolex make it more desirable to you ?? I think that would be idiotic ??
At what point did I refer to trying to take your gun away ?? Wowww Nelly.... Take your finger off the trigger

I hope you and your "piece" have a long and happy life together

I went back and read your original post and you did in fact say "advertising to idiots". In my mind you were calling people who enjoy guns idiots, and those people are indeed correct in being offended by your comments. I get it, you don't like guns. Cool, no problem. But you know, anybody can be a wiseguy on the internet. It might be wiser to think about it for a minute, and be a bit more polite to others. Your comments remind me of the old saying, "better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

[gha]

Yikes........some pretty serious opinions here. Everyone is entitled to their own, but shouldn't judge others. What others collect, and others don't care for, is no business of each others, IMHO, of course. Although I don't partake, I do agree that target shooting would be kind of like golf, or bow & arrows, kind of. Don't knock it until you've tried it. I wouldn't mind shooting a handgun at a target, or some cans or bottles. Seems like it could be fun, and a way to relieve stress as well. Just that in Canada, it's not too easy to get ahold of a handgun. Just my 2 pennies worth..gha

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by Pete On Tour

I went back and read your original post and you did in fact say "advertising to idiots". In my mind you were calling people who enjoy guns idiots, and those people are indeed correct in being offended by your comments. I get it, you don't like guns. Cool, no problem. But you know, anybody can be a wiseguy on the internet. It might be wiser to think about it for a minute, and be a bit more polite to others. Your comments remind me of the old saying, "better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Hi.
You state "In my mind you were calling people who enjoy guns idiots". Well I wrote the comment and that is not what was in my mind.

I was stating that IN MY MIND. If somebody is impressed by a gun or anything else for that matter because it is pictured beside a rolex that is idiotic. Should I be impressed or think more of an item because it is placed beside a GMT ??? Really ??? Who are they advertising to ??
Its getting late here boys. 1.40am....

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

Hi.
You state "In my mind you were calling people who enjoy guns idiots". Well I wrote the comment and that is not what was in my mind.

I was stating that IN MY MIND. If somebody is impressed by a gun or anything else for that matter because it is pictured beside a rolex that is idiotic. Should I be impressed or think more of an item because it is placed beside a GMT ??? Really ??? Who are they advertising to ??
Its getting late here boys. 1.40am....

Not going to open up a can of worms here, but with that mindset, you can call almost all 'advertising' idiotic, even by Rolex.

[krism06]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

The power of advertising to idiots eh ? A gun beside a Rolex. Wow. Makes me want to go out and buy an Ed Brown right now :)

Read the post Stef. The "power of advertising to idiots" doesn't imply anything, it states your premise. You can say that you didn't mean it, but I think an apology is in order. I also believe that one should not throw around words like idiot when speaking of someone else's preferences. I am all for live and let live, but that doesn't mean I should be insulted for not agreeing with someone.

[Pete On Tour]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

Hi.
You state "In my mind you were calling people who enjoy guns idiots". Well I wrote the comment and that is not what was in my mind.

I was stating that IN MY MIND. If somebody is impressed by a gun or anything else for that matter because it is pictured beside a rolex that is idiotic. Should I be impressed or think more of an item because it is placed beside a GMT ??? Really ??? Who are they advertising to ??
Its getting late here boys. 1.40am....

and that now everyone can let it go. I saw your comment on another post about how you could live without the poster's third friend (an HK pistol). Like I stated before, I get it, you don't like guns. Let's all do as you suggested and get back to watches; Rolex in particular.
Best Wishes,
Pete

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by krism06

Read the post Stef. The "power of advertising to idiots" doesn't imply anything, it states your premise. You can say that you didn't mean it, but I think an apology is in order. I also believe that one should not throw around words like idiot when speaking of someone else's preferences. I am all for live and let live, but that doesn't mean I should be insulted for not agreeing with someone.

"Power of advertising to Idiots"
I was implying that if you are that easily impressed by an ad you are an idiot.
Apologies to anybody that was offended ??

[krism06]

Originally Posted by Stef_Call

"Power of advertising to Idiots"
I was implying that if you are that easily impressed by an ad you are an idiot.
Apologies to anybody that was offended ??

Thank you!

[Stef_Call]

Originally Posted by Pete On Tour

and that now everyone can let it go. I saw your comment on another post about how you could live without the poster's third friend (an HK pistol). Like I stated before, I get it, you don't like guns. Let's all do as you suggested and get back to watches; Rolex in particular.
Best Wishes,
Pete

Pete

Just want to make sure before I hit the bed my comments were not misrepresented.
I'm not a gun fan. I have seen what their ownership in the wrong hands can do. But I am a big Rolex fan I know alot of great people on this forum that own guns.

Lets move on
Cheers.

[charler]

Getting back to the Ed Brown pistol, the similarities between Rolex and Ed are significant. He is the only pistol manufacturer to CNC (manufacture) all of the components except grips, sights and trigger.

He's known among the 1911 comminity as a purist, who controls his own processes rather than relying on other's components (such as Wilson and Les Baer). As such, he demands a premium over the competition, and has expanded his business significantly over the past 5 years. He also answers his own phone, and will answer customers questions directly (I suppose similarities end there).

I purchased one of his customs back in college, and it's the best shooting weapon I own. An appreciation for quality and precision is not necessarily limited to watches - as the custom 1911 forum has a section devoted to horology.