Dopes at the Olympics

Russian skiers found doping...

http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/stories/h...ing060216.html

[mailman]

What a moron. You work half if not more of your life to get to compete at this level and go screw it up by having to cheat to win.

Originally Posted by mailman

What a moron. You work half if not more of your life to get to compete at this level and go screw it up by having to cheat to win.

Well Paul, sadly I would guesstimate that the vast majority of high-performance athletes are doping in some shape or form. Basically the rule of thumb is, if you want to compete at that level you gotta take performance enhancers.

My sport (cycling) is the founding 'father' of doping, and unfortunately
I've seen it first hand. And most athletes who haven't been caught (like Lance Armstrong, for example) are using stuff that isn't on the IOC banned list because the 'good guys' haven't yet discovered their drugs of choice. Usually the police of doping in sports are about five years behind the lead cheaters.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Well Paul, sadly I would guesstimate that the vast majority of high-performance athletes are doping in some shape or form. Basically the rule of thumb is, if you want to compete at that level you gotta take performance enhancers.

My sport (cycling) is the founding 'father' of doping, and unfortunately
I've seen it first hand. And most athletes who haven't been caught (like Lance Armstrong, for example) are using stuff that isn't on the IOC banned list because the 'good guys' haven't yet discovered their drugs of choice. Usually the police of doping in sports are about five years behind the lead cheaters.

It's a shame. The cheating is in every sport now. Another example is Barry Bonds. Personally, I don't like him. When he came up from the minors, he was a leadoff hitter and as skinny as a beanpole. Now his head has grown about four hat sizes, and he's gotten quite muscular over the years and as a result has managed to hit home runs almost at will. Then when asked, they all lie instead of owning up to it like a man. His personal trainer, Victor Conte was the head of BALCO, the biggest steriod distribution ring on the west coast got busted by the Feds. They must take us for fools.
babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle played with hangovers and injuries day in and day out. I bet that pu**y bonds wouldn't even get out of bed until noon if he had more than three wine spritzers.
Sorry for the rant. I just have zero tolerance for athletes that get caught cheating and then lie about it.

Or worse... athletes who are suspected, who's doctor is convicted, who's team mates point the finger at him and yet he still denies he's dirty.

Either way, it stinks.

[padi56]

Thats the trouble today when you are top in any sport, it means big money.And some are prepared to take the risks to achieve it at any cost.IMO any athletes who is taking, or get caught taking drugs, should be banned from competition for life.And be tattooed, with drug taker cheat,on a prominent part of there anatomy.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by padi56

Thats the trouble today when you are top in any sport, it means big money.And some are prepared to take the risks to achieve it at any cost.IMO any athletes who is taking, or get caught taking drugs, should be banned from competition for life.And be tattooed, with drug taker cheat,on a prominent part of there anatomy.

....and we all know which is Paulie's most prominent part of his anatomy, don't we?

Originally Posted by Atomic

Well Paul, sadly I would guesstimate that the vast majority of high-performance athletes are doping in some shape or form. Basically the rule of thumb is, if you want to compete at that level you gotta take performance enhancers.

My sport (cycling) is the founding 'father' of doping, and unfortunately
I've seen it first hand. And most athletes who haven't been caught (like Lance Armstrong, for example) are using stuff that isn't on the IOC banned list because the 'good guys' haven't yet discovered their drugs of choice. Usually the police of doping in sports are about five years behind the lead cheaters.

Okay I'm getting on my soapbox for this one......

Although I understand the emotional reaction to the news of yet another athlete caught in a doping scandal, to say that the "vast majority" of top athletes are cheats is unfair. I believe that the rate of doping varies widely with the sport being discussed, and also with the country you are referring to. Comment such as these are unfair because they paint even the honest athletes with the same brush as the cheaters, and these comments are a great disservice to those who do compete fairly.

Yes, cycling is probably the most doping laden sport, and up until recently the US was the nation with the most dopers (although China was either a close second or in a tie for top spot). However, there are many sports where doping is very unusual - almost unheard of. My sport of archery is one of those, and although there have been a few remote instances of people being caught doping, to say that the vast majority of top archers are drug cheats is simply rediculous.

In our national archery federation, one of the many roles I fill is that of educating our athletes on doping controls and assisting when someone is prescribed medication that may be prohibited. I have been involved in the creation of the World Anti-Doping Code (as were thousands of others all over the world) that is now in place and ratified by all countries and sport federations participating in Olympic competition. I have a fair bit of experience in this area as well as high level competition, and I can assure you that when I have competed head to head with Olympic Gold Medalists in my sport, there was never even a hint of any thought that they might not be competing clean (both when shooting against me or in the Olympics that they won). I know these people personally, and honestly there is little doping at high level in our sport. By the way, as with all pure shooting sports, the drug of choice would be a beta-blocker - those over 45 might recognize what they are.......

Regarding the drug police always being behind the dopers, you are right and there is no way of changing this. However, since the formation of the World Anti-Doping Agency, the science and commitment behind doping controls has moved ahead by leaps and bounds. Even the US, as noted above a country that would in the past allow drug cheats to go to the Olympics, has formed USADA, an anti-doping agency that is not tied to the USOC, and therefore not subject to the conflicts of interest that have allowed many drug cheats to go on to Olympic competition after being caught doping at home. In addition, the IOC and WADA have made it clear that urine samples will be saved for future testing so that even if a drug can't be detected now, they will be able to later and will take back medals. Even a few short years ago, the doping police were way behind where they are now. The next big challenge for them is gene doping, but that is another subject in itself.

Rather than being disappointed at someone being caught, it should be heralded as a success of the program, and a failure of a cheating athlete in getting away with it.

Originally Posted by padi56

Thats the trouble today when you are top in any sport, it means big money.And some are prepared to take the risks to achieve it at any cost.IMO any athletes who is taking, or get caught taking drugs, should be banned from competition for life.And be tattooed, with drug taker cheat,on a prominent part of there anatomy.

I seriously take issue with the comment that the top person in any sport will get rich from winning the gold. I know someone personally who is a double Olympic Gold Medalist, and to be honest I make more than he did in his best years after winning. There were only minor endorsement deals, and he was provided a salary by an equipment manufacturer to "help them with product development." Yes, there are sports where a gold medal can mean millions, but in reality there are only a few of those sports. In most sports, you may make a modest living from the gold medal, at best.

I agree completely that being banned for life from sport is the right thing, and in most cases this happens after 2 "adverse analytical findings" to use the correct term.....in other words a positive doping test. To be honest, when the WADA code was implemented, the bans imposed by some countries was actually reduced in favour of harmonizing tem across the board. Canada was one of those countries, as we use to ban people for 4 years on the first offence, and then for life on the second. Now the first ban is typically 2 years.

I am actually in favour of laws such as those in Italy, where doping in sport is subject to criminal prosecution. It was not generally in the main stream media, but there was a great deal of stress on the IOC as they were trying to get Italy to back down on these laws while the Olympics were on. A compromise was reached, and that means that although the police will not raid the athletes village (which they had the right to do until about a week or two ago), they will be able to lay criminal charges. I believe they call it "sport fraud" or something similar. In my view, it is fraud in every sense of the word.

Okay, off my soapbox.......for now.

Okay, I didn't mean to say 'all' top athletes are dirty cuz certainly I the ones I know who are stil competing at or near the top are clean (I think, I'd be gobsmacked if I found the opposite).

However, doping is most prevalent in sports like cycling, cross country skiing, and track and field.

And you're right about money not being the primary goal. Certainly Steve Bauer, Olympic silver medallist in 1984, and multiple day yellow jersey winner made decent money as a professional, but his silver medal just meant a guaranteed pro contract the next season. He has a small but successful business in Niagara wine tours via bicycles (and some early season elite rider weeks) but he's certainly not a multi-millionaire. Alexi Grewal, who won gold to Bauer's silver had his pro career tank and he was later found to have used blood doping to win his gold, yet his medal was never taken away, despite winning it by cheating.

The sports experts could always removing any doping controls and let buyers beware. That would level the playing field. But then again, you'd see lots of athletes dropping dead prematurely. Look at all the Dutch cyclists who died in their early 20s from 'heart attacks'... related to using EPO in the 90s.

Not all top athletes are dirty, but there is something intrinsically wrong with athletes, coaches and sponsors in that they would even consider taking them as a means to winning.

[mailman]

It's a good thingthat the IOC doesn't test the Dutch athletes anymore

Originally Posted by mailman

It's a good thingthat the IOC doesn't test the Dutch athletes anymore

Hey Canadian Ross Rebagliati (snowboarding) is the first athlete to have his gold medal stripped for testing positive for cannibus.

Too bad the dicks at the IOC didn't make sure cannibus WASN'T on the banned substance list at the time. Could have saved them much embarassment in giving Ross his medal back.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Hey Canadian Ross Rebagliati (snowboarding) is the first athlete to have his gold medal stripped for testing positive for cannibus.

Too bad the dicks at the IOC didn't make sure cannibus WASN'T on the banned substance list at the time. Could have saved them much embarassment in giving Ross his medal back.

Would I be out of line saying that it's possible most snowboarders toke up? NTTAWWT

Originally Posted by mailman

Would I be out of line saying that it's possible most snowboarders toke up? NTTAWWT

I'm sure you're only making that claim cuz you like to snowboard (or toke up), NTTAWWT.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Atomic

I'm sure you're only making that claim cuz you like to snowboard (or toke up), NTTAWWT.

Hey I resent that remark. I've never, not once snowboarded.

Originally Posted by Atomic

Hey Canadian Ross Rebagliati (snowboarding) is the first athlete to have his gold medal stripped for testing positive for cannibus.

Too bad the dicks at the IOC didn't make sure cannibus WASN'T on the banned substance list at the time. Could have saved them much embarassment in giving Ross his medal back.

Well, I see many reports of doping infractions from many sports. I would have to say that weed is the most common drug that people get nailed for. It is generally not considered "performance enhancing" but is against "the spirit of sport" so most get away with the warning for their first offence.

[Launch Mini]

Ross was given his medal back once they determined it was "second hand smoke"
LOL
Even Whistler Mountain named a park after him.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

Ross was given his medal back once they determined it was "second hand smoke"
LOL
Even Whistler Mountain named a park after him.

I'm sure he didn't inhale either

[dman]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Hey Canadian Ross Rebagliati (snowboarding) is the first athlete to have his gold medal stripped for testing positive for cannibus.

Too bad the dicks at the IOC didn't make sure cannibus WASN'T on the banned substance list at the time. Could have saved them much embarassment in giving Ross his medal back.

Pot is not a performace enhancing drug, he should get a second medal for being able to perform stoned.

[Launch Mini]

He lives around here ( Vancouver) .
The dude was quite the talk of the won for awhile. Heard all the stories.
Apparantly , it was his " Goign away to the Olympics" party were his buddies were smoking & he wasn't. Surrrre Ross. whateve you say dude..
LOL

[C.J.]

I agree with Al. Doping isn't as wide spread as it is sometimes made out to be. At the armature level especially, there are athletes giving their all trying to reach their goals. That medal means more to them than any million dollar contract. It's a matter of pride for them, they know that blood, sweat, tears and raw desire got them where they are. These creeps that win medals by cheating are missing the whole point of competition and the love of the sport.

[dman]

Isn't it only cheating if you get caught?