Buying a GMT-Master II or Submariner Date in Tokyo, Japan

[acaixguard]

Greetings! I will be going to Tokyo, Japan in August. From what I've gathered, now seems like a good time to pick up a Rolex in Japan due to how weak the Yen is compared to the dollar. If that is the case, I would like to pick up a GMT-Master II (116710LN) or the Submariner date (116610), both in stainless steel with black dial & bezel. Slight preference for the GMT-Master, only because it's a tad cheaper and there isn't anything I love more about the Sub that I want to pay extra for. However, I would be perfectly happy with either.

For those who are familiar with dealers in Tokyo, are there particular dealers I should check out first? And is it beneficial to bring someone who can speak Japanese when purchasing?

As for inventory, how hard is it to find either a GMT-Master 116710LN or Submariner date in black in Tokyo? I read in another post that the GMT-Masters are hard to find, but is that the case with the Subs too? Also, are they typically going for MSRP from dealers that do have either in stock?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[zapokee]

I'd go to a shop called Jack Road at Nakano Station in Tokyo, and Hoseki Hiroba in Shibuya. They both have a wide selection and tend to stock SubCs and GMTs.

They're trustworthy grey dealers, so prices are below Rolex retail. Both shops have English-speaking staff. Just hope they're on duty when you go...

[acaixguard]

Thanks for the help! Do you feel it's necessary to have a relative there see if one can be put on hold for me, or should I not need to worry about inventory when I am there in 2 months?

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Thanks for the help! Do you feel it's necessary to have a relative there see if one can be put on hold for me, or should I not need to worry about inventory when I am there in 2 months?
Also, what do you mean by on duty? Are they not there part of the year?

I think by "on duty", it is meant that a member of the English speaking staff are actually working on the day that you visit and not on a day off.

[acaixguard]

Sorry my mistake. I am reading this on my phone and missed that sentence about the English speaking staff.

[wayneside]

https://www.jackroad.co.jp/access_en.php

[watchabout]

Ask Gaijin, he lives in Japan and most likely is knowledgeable of the prices.

Not sure if he is Tokyo, though.


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[watchabout]

I meant IN Tokyo, sorry.


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[Azure Chicken]

I just got back from Japan last week and you're absolutely correct--if you're converting dollars, the favorable exchange rate makes buying a Rolex a veritable bargain. In fact, even though I hadn't planned on buying a watch on the trip, I'm now kicking myself now for only buying one.

My Rolex shopping experience, however, was the opposite of Zapokee's. The ADs were actually cheaper than the the grey dealers I visited (Hoseki Hiroba and Quark). Quark, in particular, had a great selection but was really overpriced.

The rub was that while the ADs had better pricing, they had crap inventory, at least for SS professional models like the the GMT or Sub. I stopped by all four ADs when I was in Kyoto and three of them had zero SS Subs or GMTs in stock. Plenty of TT models, though.

I ended up finding a SS GMTc at the Takashimaya Kyoto AD. They were taking it out of the coffin to put in the display case when the wife and I stopped by. Talk about good timing.

The final price less the 5% discount card they give to all Takashimaya shoppers was ¥760,000, or ~$6000, which I think is quite the deal for a brand new SS GMTc from an authorized Rolex dealer.

I still feel a slight twinge of regret for not picking up the lone ND Sub at the Isetan AD when I was there (which was an absolute steal at ~$5400), but as my wife gently pointed out, I probably don't need 4 black face Rolexes.

Little does she understand.

Anyway, have fun in Japan, and good luck with your search!

[FineWatchFan]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

I just got back from Japan last week and you're absolutely correct--if you're converting dollars, the favorable exchange rate makes buying a Rolex a veritable bargain. In fact, even though I hadn't planned on buying a watch on the trip, I'm now kicking myself now for only buying one.



My Rolex shopping experience, however, was the opposite of Zapokee's. The ADs were actually cheaper than the the grey dealers I visited (Hoseki Hiroba and Quark). Quark, in particular, had a great selection but was really overpriced.



The rub was that while the ADs had better pricing, they had crap inventory, at least for SS professional models like the the GMT or Sub. I stopped by all four ADs when I was in Kyoto and three of them had zero SS Subs or GMTs in stock. Plenty of TT models, though.



I ended up finding a SS GMTc at the Takashimaya Kyoto AD. They were taking it out of the coffin to put in the display case when the wife and I stopped by. Talk about good timing.



The final price less the 5% discount card they give to all Takashimaya shoppers was ¥760,000, or ~$6000, which I think is quite the deal for a brand new SS GMTc from an authorized Rolex dealer.



I still feel a slight twinge of regret for not picking up the lone ND Sub at the Isetan AD when I was there (which was an absolute steal at ~$5400), but as my wife gently pointed out, I probably don't need 4 black face Rolexes.



Little does she understand.



Anyway, have fun in Japan, and good luck with your search!

Wow..those are awesome deals from an AD...

[acaixguard]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Is there a reason why ADs in Japan seem to have less inventory than the grey market dealers?

[Desert rat]

I am in Tokyo right now and based in a small sample size of one AD, I can say that the post above about selection is right on. AD had only one 114060 and no SS GMTs. No 116610LN or LV. Not sure why stock is so low on SS sport watches.


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[rollee1]

One of the reason I think is many Asian customers from Hong Kong and Singapore, got word Japanese pricing are fabulous, they have been making more shopping trips.

[viper9669]

Try this branch located at Shibuya, across the street from Tower Records...

[Danex]

Originally Posted by Azure Chicken

Little does she understand.

Indeed.
That made me laugh!

[acaixguard]

Checked out Quark's site. Are their prices a bit higher than some of the other dealers mentioned?

[Gaijin]

PM sent.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Checked out Quark's site. Are their prices a bit higher than some of the other dealers mentioned?

Yes Quark is higher, but they will negotiate. They also offer pretty good trade in value. Also negotiable. One thing I don't like is that they have their own "Quark" boxes for NIB Rolex. It is awful.

If ADs are cheaper than greys here that is news to me. Gonna have to check that out.

Also I have seen greys bump up their prices when the Yen weakens to account for costs, so maybe ADs have a fixed price and don't. Interesting.

[Gaijin]

Was just thinking. The ADs have a set price and cannot exceed it. The greys are not regulated by Rolex and can charge what they can get on hard to get models. I have not seen that here just guessing. That being said a grey dealer once told me that since he is buying Rolex from all over the world the value of the Yen at the time comes into play in his resell price. Makes sense. I bought in Japanese grey dealers a NIB DJ that came from a German AD, a NIB LV from a Swedish AD and another LV from a Japsnese AD.

Man if ADs are cheaper than greys here I
might be watch shopping soon.

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Was just thinking. The ADs have a set price and cannot exceed it. The greys are not regulated by Rolex and can charge what they can get on hard to get models. I have not seen that here just guessing. That being said a grey dealer once told me that since he is buying Rolex from all over the world the value of the Yen at the time comes into play in his resell price. Makes sense. I bought in Japanese grey dealers a NIB DJ that came from a German AD, a NIB LV from a Swedish AD and another LV from a Japsnese AD.

Man if ADs are cheaper than greys here I
might be watch shopping soon.

Sounds logical. I definitely noticed a price variance between the different greys whereas all the ADs charged the exact same--lower--ironclad price.

I hate paying MSRP, much less ABOVE list price, for a readily available watch.

It doesn't make sense right now to buy from a grey if one can find the model they're looking for at an AD (although that seems to be a rather big if for certain models...).

For instance, Quark's price for the GMTc was ~¥110,000 higher (if I remember correctly) than the ADs. I suppose one could negotiate it down somewhat, and even at Quark's full price it's still cheaper than buying from a US AD, but Quark is a grey--no Rolex warranty, no Rolex box, no thank you.

[acaixguard]

If buying from a grey like Jack Road or House Kihiroba, will you always be lacking a Rolex box and papers?

Also, is there any hope of getting particular models in stock at an AD if ordering one ahead of time? I may be able to have a relative take care of this for me before I get there.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

If buying from a grey like Jack Road or House Kihiroba, will you always be lacking a Rolex box and papers?

Also, is there any hope of getting particular models in stock at an AD if ordering one ahead of time? I may be able to have a relative take care of this for me before I get there.

No not always but if you buy new there you will get all the bells and whistles. Used normally you will get some if not all of the bits and pieces. Depending on what the first owner recieved and kept.

Sadly Quark went to their own Rolex-like boxes recently and they look like a Rolex box from the outside but are dark brown inside and say "Quark" inside them. Awful. Usually a great selection though.

I have never ordered ahead of time with an AD , but I don't see why they could not do this.

[acaixguard]

Thanks again for the further replies!

So, instead of the GMT II or SubC, I am actually leaning more towards the SD4K now. I had my cousin-in-law call an AD in Tokyo (who happened to have one in stock last weekend), and the price is about $4-500 USD more than what you would pay at places like Housekihiroba or JackRoad.

For those people here familiar with Japan, is it worth paying the few hundred extra to buy from an AD, or would you by with the same peace of mind from a grey like ones mentioned previously?

Thanks again!

[Azure Chicken]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

Thanks again for the further replies!

So, instead of the GMT II or SubC, I am actually leaning more towards the SD4K now. I had my cousin-in-law call an AD in Tokyo (who happened to have one in stock last weekend), and the price is about $4-500 USD more than what you would pay at places like Housekihiroba or JackRoad.

For those people here familiar with Japan, is it worth paying the few hundred extra to buy from an AD, or would you by with the same peace of mind from a grey like ones mentioned previously?

Thanks again!

Don't forget that many of the Rolex ADs in Japan are located within department stores like Takashimaya, Daimaru, and Isetan, all of which will issue you a discount card for 5% off purchases when you present a foreign passport (this is on top of the VAT refund). I bet that's something the AD didn't even think to mention to your cousin since it's not a benefit extended to locals.

That brings the out-the-door price of an SD4000 at a department store AD to ¥870,833. That's virtually the same price as Housekihiroba and a hair cheaper than Jack Road. Figure ~$7000 at today's rate (I expect the yen will be even cheaper by the time of your trip).

Of course, there's no negotiating at a Japanese department store AD, but I wouldn't count on much of a discount--if any--from the greys on a brand new SS model. My hunch is that there isn't going to be a difference in price between an AD and a grey.

Also, there's a rumor from an apparently well informed poster that Rolex is set to increase the warranty period from 2 to 5 years starting in July. If true, that alone would make buying from an AD a no brainer for me.

[ADINVA]

My recollection is Jackroad may sell some NIB watches but most are pre-owned thus explaining why the price maybe lower than that of the ADs. I thought the ADs' prices for SS are very attractive and hence the popular SS watches do not stay in the store for longer than few days. Even some of the grey sellers like Quark would buy off from ADs and resell them at a premium.

[acaixguard]

Thanks for the tip about the 5% discount card. Do ALL department stores give that, and it's automatically given to foreigners if you ask? The AD my cousin-in-law called was just a shop...not part of a department store. Wonder if there's any negotiating with those AD's, if you bring someone who speaks Japanese.

[aleeboy]

Most major retail stores issue foreigners with a 5% discount card. You can then claim your tax at the tax refund counter located in all department stores and major retailers.

Quarks is heavily overpriced. Wasn't impressed with their prices the last two times I went. I would stick with the ADs as there prices are pretty good. And you have the strong dollar. It's all a matter of luck as supply is falling short of demand due to a lot of private sellers stocking up to sell.

[acaixguard]

Thanks again. Trying to locate the model I want first, then hopefully I can worry about the 5% discount card.
I'm hoping retailers there will hold the watch if a deposit is left first. My uncle said he's willing to do that for me.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by acaixguard

If buying from a grey like Jack Road or House Kihiroba, will you always be lacking a Rolex box and papers?

Also, is there any hope of getting particular models in stock at an AD if ordering one ahead of time? I may be able to have a relative take care of this for me before I get there.

I've bought three brand-new Rolexes from Hoseki Hiroba and one from Jack Road. All came with full original box and papers, exactly the same as you'd get from an AD.

That said, if it's only a couple of hundred difference, I might consider an AD next time...Knowing Japanese customer service, they might well get one in stock for you if you convince them that you're serious about buying.

[acf]

I happen to be in Tokyo right now and went to 3 rolex Stores in the Ginza area. I'm looking for a two tone GMT 2 and all stores were out of stock. I'm going to try Osaka in a few days when I travel there.

Does anyone know how duty works bringing back a watch to Cali?