Expats

[Wesley Crusher]

Maybe I am simply young, dumb, naive, or a combination of all three, but the idea of being an expat is something that has always appealed to me.

I often think about how many people are born, live their whole lives, and die in the same city or country. It's crazy to think that the world is such a large place with so much to offer and many people will never experience it.

The great thing about TRF is that it is truly a global community. I am sure that there are many expats here and I'd love to hear your stories.

So, expats... Where are you originally from? Where do you live now? How old were you when you left and how long have you been living in your new location? Do you ever plan on going home? Do you plan on going somewhere else?

[Cru Jones]

I'm from upstate NY. Met my wife, a French women, at school and we lived in NYC for several years. When it was time to think of next steps, my wife said "life in Paris is pretty good".... It's been over 11 years now and I'm quite happy.

I never had a "dream" to be an expat or to live abroad. I like adventure and challenges, though (even if learning new languages isn't a strong skill of mine). And, the food and wine is good.

[Abdullah71601]

I am from Arkansas, but grew up near Chicago (eighth generation American). I work as a DoD contractor.both US and OCONUS).

I've worked in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE. My wife is Indian. The interesting thing about the middle east is that these countries run off expat labor. Western Europeans are very common (we have dozens of Brits at work) as well as south Asians, Chinese, and pacific islanders.

Working here gives you a perspective on people and culture that no amount of travel channel can provide. Americans in general have a fairly flawed view of the world, and often think that different means worse, or less valued. Once you've been overseas for a year or so, living within the fabric of the local society, you begin to lose that arrogance and see the differences as the flavors of cultures that are much older than the American experience.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I am from Arkansas, but grew up near Chicago (eighth generation American). I work as a DoD contractor.both US and OCONUS).

I've worked in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE. My wife is Indian. The interesting thing about the middle east is that these countries run off expat labor. Western Europeans are very common (we have dozens of Brits at work) as well as south Asians, Chinese, and pacific islanders.

Working here gives you a perspective on people and culture that no amount of travel channel can provide. Americans in general have a fairly flawed view of the world, and often think that different means worse, or less valued. Once you've been overseas for a year or so, living within the fabric of the local society, you begin to lose that arrogance and see the differences as the flavors of cultures that are much older than the American experience.

While I respect your views on watches, as a proud American I couldn't disagree more with this statement.

[Rebel]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I am from Arkansas, but grew up near Chicago (eighth generation American). I work as a DoD contractor.both US and OCONUS).

I've worked in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE. My wife is Indian. The interesting thing about the middle east is that these countries run off expat labor. Western Europeans are very common (we have dozens of Brits at work) as well as south Asians, Chinese, and pacific islanders.

Working here gives you a perspective on people and culture that no amount of travel channel can provide. Americans in general have a fairly flawed view of the world, and often think that different means worse, or less valued. Once you've been overseas for a year or so, living within the fabric of the local society, you begin to lose that arrogance and see the differences as the flavors of cultures that are much older than the American experience.

I'm not going to let this statement go without some voice of disapproval. Think you are a tad off center on this one.

[subtona]

I have encountered 3 different expat communities, they have consistently been some the strangest people I have met.

Cadaqués, Spain (home of Salvador Dali)
San Ignacio, Belize
Medellín, Columbia

Though not a rule, I have met a fair share that are expats for reasons consisting of more than simply choice

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Tony64

While I respect your views on watches, as a proud American I couldn't disagree more with this statement.

You need to contemplate what you just wrote. What is it that is special about being a proud American?

Originally Posted by Rebel

I'm not going to let this statement go without some voice of disapproval. Think you are a tad off center on this one.

The contrast is pretty sharp between Americans who've only vacationed outside the US (or never have been OCONUS) and Americans who have lived outside the US. For lack of a better way of putting it, you gain insight on why other people think the way they do, which tempers your perspectives on global politics, culture, and economy.

[ref1655]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Americans in general have a fairly flawed view of the world, and often think that different means worse, or less valued.

I can see your point when it comes to typical American perspectives of third world and/or developing countries. on the other hand, then why do so many native inhabitants of these 'misconstrued' worse or less valued environments want to immigrate to the United States? though the U.S. is far from perfect, the countless number of outsiders trying to get in (either legally or illegally) ought to tell you something.

Originally Posted by subtona

I have been to 3 different places with significant expat communities, they have consistently been some the strangest people I have met.

Though not a rule, I have met a fair share that are expats for reasons consisting of more than simply choice

interesting commentary/observation...for some reason, it doesn't surprise me at all.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You need to contemplate what you just wrote. What is it that is special about being a proud American?



The contrast is pretty sharp between Americans who've only vacationed outside the US (or never have been OCONUS) and Americans who have lived outside the US. For lack of a better way of putting it, you gain insight on why other people think the way they do, which tempers your perspectives on global politics, culture, and economy.

What's to contemplate? I'm an American (a United States citizen to be exact) and I'm proud of my country and myself. I never said that quality was special you did, but since you asked, I should hope it wouldn't be special, but rather the norm.

[locutus49]

As an American who spent many years abroad, I agree with your assessment Abdullah.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

You need to contemplate what you just wrote. What is it that is special about being a proud American?



The contrast is pretty sharp between Americans who've only vacationed outside the US (or never have been OCONUS) and Americans who have lived outside the US. For lack of a better way of putting it, you gain insight on why other people think the way they do, which tempers your perspectives on global politics, culture, and economy.

[KarlS]

I am a South African that left in 1996 on a 3 year secondment to London. I never returned. I have since worked in UK, Mauritius, Tanzania, Mauritius again, Bahrain & Kuwait. I have travelled to 76 countries and have yet to decide where I shall retire although my primary residence is in London. I have worked in many sh8%$holes but once you get comfortable prostituting your skills for money it can be a lot of fun.

[Rebel]

Abdullah71601, I didn't make the "negative" comment about our country. You did. If you get flamed, so be it.

[FTX I]

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Rebel

Abdullah71601, I didn't make the "negative" comment about our country. You did. If you get flamed, so be it.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Rebel

Abdullah71601, I didn't make the "negative" comment about our country. You did. If you get flamed, so be it.

Originally Posted by Tony64

What's to contemplate? I'm an American (a United States citizen to be exact) and I'm proud of my country and myself. I never said that quality was special you did, but since you asked, I should hope it wouldn't be special, but rather the norm.

Edit: Wrong quote.

I think you guys illustrated my point quite well. Your response said "I'm an American, you are wrong", without any supporting argument. I dive with Russians, Brits, and Afrikaners and they are all fierce nationalists, every bit as fierce as any American. The difference is, they don't enter the conversation believing they have a superior view by virtue of being from their country.

People who never leave the US get all their information from American media. Nothing comes from the source, you never really get the whole story, and the other guy's perspectives are absent or minimalized. So the "American perspective" is biased by the marketing pressures of American media outlets. When you interact with the source, your views become tempered by facts rather than media talking points, and you acquire a more global perspective.

[Rebel]

I will step aside from the conversation so as not to cause any difficulty between myself, the moderators and other TRF'rs....and you.

Oh, one last thing. I wore a uniform that gave me a good "worldwide" perspective. Had an oak leaf on it when I hung it up. Been there, done that. Out.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Edit: Wrong quote.

I think you guys illustrated my point quite well. Your response said "I'm an American, you are wrong", without any supporting argument. I dive with Russians, Brits, and Afrikaners and they are all fierce nationalists, every bit as fierce as any American. The difference is, they don't enter the conversation believing they have a superior view by virtue of being from their country.

People who never leave the US get all their information from American media. Nothing comes from the source, you never really get the whole story, and the other guy's perspectives are absent or minimalized. So the "American perspective" is biased by the marketing pressures of American media outlets. When you interact with the source, your views become tempered by facts rather than media talking points, and you acquire a more global perspective.

Abdullah, I think you've made your perspective and opinions quite clearly known.

Understand that there will be those that disagree, please count me among them.

I don't think this is the direction that the OP intended though, so let's keep this civil and on point. We can agree to disagree.

Enough said?

[Old Expat Beast]

Shall we just agree that travel broadens the mind?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by ref1655

I can see your point when it comes to typical American perspectives of third world and/or developing countries. on the other hand, then why do so many native inhabitants of these 'misconstrued' worse or less valued environments want to immigrate to the United States? though the U.S. is far from perfect, the countless number of outsiders trying to get in (either legally or illegally) ought to tell you something.
.

Simple. It's the largest economy in the world. That's where the work is. Most immigrants to the US are moving for economic reasons (most people aren't uprooting for ideology).

Originally Posted by Tony64

Abdullah, I think you've made your perspective and opinions quite clearly known.

Understand that there will be those that disagree, please count me among them.

I don't think this is the direction that the OP intended though, so let's keep this civil and on point. We can agree to disagree.

Enough said?

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Shall we just agree that travel broadens the mind?

[ref1655]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Simple. It's the largest economy in the world. That's where the work is. Most immigrants to the US are moving for economic reasons (most people aren't uprooting for ideology).

or assimilation?

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

they are all fierce nationalists....difference is, they don't enter the conversation believing they have a superior view by virtue of being from their country.

sometimes it comes up a little later in the conversation...like after a few drinks.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

People who never leave the US get all their information from American media. Nothing comes from the source, you never really get the whole story, and the other guy's perspectives are absent or minimalized. So the "American perspective" is biased by the marketing pressures of American media outlets. When you interact with the source, your views become tempered by facts rather than media talking points, and you acquire a more global perspective.

+1...probably why PBS is a much better source of news perspective than ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX.

[Sublover2166]

Originally Posted by ref1655

I can see your point when it comes to typical American perspectives of third world and/or developing countries. on the other hand, then why do so many native inhabitants of these 'misconstrued' worse or less valued environments want to immigrate to the United States? though the U.S. is far from perfect, the countless number of outsiders trying to get in (either legally or illegally) ought to tell you something.



interesting commentary/observation...for some reason, it doesn't surprise me at all.

You are exactly right. The USA may be FAR from perfect, but there are more people from around the world that want to come here (legally or otherwise) than any other country on the face of the Earth.

And member Abdullah, I am slightly offended by your comments about Americans and their views on people from other parts of the world. One should not make generalizations about how all Americans think or view the world.

[Muzz]

Born in Toronto, lived extensively in Yemen (7 years), KSA, Syria, Angola, Ghana, Vietnam (6 years) and Malaysia.

Doubtful I will move back to Canada permanently.

Abdullah, I completely understand your point and agree however I would add the blanket statement about people that have not lived abroad for an extended period vs just a country.

[77T]

Well this has gone sideways...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Sublover2166

You are exactly right. The USA may be FAR from perfect, but there are more people from around the world that want to come here (legally or otherwise) than any other country on the face of the Earth.

And member Abdullah, I am slightly offended by your comments about Americans and their views on people from other parts of the world. One should not make generalizations about how all Americans think or view the world.

I didn't intend to offend my fellow Americans, merely stating observations that those who don't work abroad wouldn't contemplate. As an American who has been shot at by terrorists while working for the US Army in Iraq, and who is currently working for the US military abroad, I have the opportunity to see both sides of the equation.

Travel broadens the mind (thanks Adam).

[Wesley Crusher]

Guys,

Thanks for all of the comments so far. Personally, I was not offended by Abdullah's comments. I know the intent of his post was not negative. Let's move on.

Thanks,

[dera]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Travel broadens the mind (thanks Adam).

This is very true. The Americans I know can be very narrow minded, especially if they haven't traveled extensively. I guess a major factor is the fact how little foreign history they learn in school, and how US POV the American media is. The worst ones are the "proud Americans" who have never left the country. Or the ones who have only traveled for military duties (all respect to them for that, but it doesn't really teach you anything about how the world really works.)

I've lived in 4 countries in 3 continents, and traveled in just under 100 countries now. Travel does broaden the mind, even though sometimes sadly it also confirms stereotypes...

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

I'm from upstate NY. Met my wife, a French women, at school and we lived in NYC for several years. When it was time to think of next steps, my wife said "life in Paris is pretty good".... It's been over 11 years now and I'm quite happy.

I never had a "dream" to be an expat or to live abroad. I like adventure and challenges, though (even if learning new languages isn't a strong skill of mine). And, the food and wine is good.

Thanks for sharing. Paris is a wonderful city. Great people, food, and so much history.

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I am from Arkansas, but grew up near Chicago (eighth generation American). I work as a DoD contractor.both US and OCONUS).

I've worked in Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE. My wife is Indian. The interesting thing about the middle east is that these countries run off expat labor. Western Europeans are very common (we have dozens of Brits at work) as well as south Asians, Chinese, and pacific islanders.

Working here gives you a perspective on people and culture that no amount of travel channel can provide. Americans in general have a fairly flawed view of the world, and often think that different means worse, or less valued. Once you've been overseas for a year or so, living within the fabric of the local society, you begin to lose that arrogance and see the differences as the flavors of cultures that are much older than the American experience.

I have never visited the Middle East, but I'd like to. I understand what you're saying. I think people have a lot to learn by experiencing other places (and i don't mean simply going on vacation).

Originally Posted by subtona

I have encountered 3 different expat communities, they have consistently been some the strangest people I have met.

Cadaqués, Spain (home of Salvador Dali)
San Ignacio, Belize
Medellín, Columbia

Though not a rule, I have met a fair share that are expats for reasons consisting of more than simply choice

Care to elaborate, Gus?

Originally Posted by KarlS

I am a South African that left in 1996 on a 3 year secondment to London. I never returned. I have since worked in UK, Mauritius, Tanzania, Mauritius again, Bahrain & Kuwait. I have travelled to 76 countries and have yet to decide where I shall retire although my primary residence is in London. I have worked in many sh8%$holes but once you get comfortable prostituting your skills for money it can be a lot of fun.

I work with a guy from South Africa (Cape Town). Great guy. I believe he left in the 80s. He explained the "brain drain" to me. I don't think he plans to return. I'd like to visit, though.

Originally Posted by FTX I

Originally Posted by Muzz

Born in Toronto, lived extensively in Yemen (7 years), KSA, Syria, Angola, Ghana, Vietnam (6 years) and Malaysia.

Doubtful I will move back to Canada permanently.

Abdullah, I completely understand your point and agree however I would add the blanket statement about people that have not lived abroad for an extended period vs just a country.

You've lived in some cool/interesting places!

Why do you say that you doubt you'll move back to Canada permanently?

Originally Posted by locutus49

As an American who spent many years abroad, I agree with your assessment Abdullah.

Where did you live, John?

[dera]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I work with a guy from South Africa (Cape Town). Great guy. I believe he left in the 80s. He explained the "brain drain" to me. I don't think he plans to return. I'd like to visit, though.

Cape Town is one of the coolest cities in the world - for now. Unfortunately, thanks to the current political climate and the way people vote there, I don't think it will be for long. Sad. Very sad.
To visit, now would be the time. It really is an amazing place.

[Muzz]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Thanks for sharing. Paris is a wonderful city. Great people, food, and so much history.



I have never visited the Middle East, but I'd like to. I understand what you're saying. I think people have a lot to learn by experiencing other places (and i don't mean simply going on vacation).



Care to elaborate, Gus?

I work with a guy from South Africa (Cape Town). Great guy. I believe he left in the 80s. He explained the "brain drain" to me. I don't think he plans to return. I'd like to visit, though. the







You've lived in some cool/interesting places!

Why do you say that you doubt you'll move back to Canada permanently?




Where did you live, John?

Thanks Wes!! In terms of moving to Canada it would be probably too difficult for my Wife who is Vietnamese. She likes the idea of visiting only and not permanently residing there. She has never driven a car (we have a car and driver set up here) and because the lifestyle is so different I am unsure she would ever settle.

Also she hates the cold lol

[Gaijin]

My Dad was 30 years Military. I was born in the UK, went to elementary school in Germany, traveled all over Europe as a youngster and then lived all over the US. Mostly Texas and Colorado. Finished high school in Colorado.

At 18 I joined the Army and before I got out they had sent me off for a year on the DMZ in Korea and then a great stint in Hawaii. Got out in Hawaii and started my civilian LE career.

After 5 years I took a leave of absence to study Japanese in Japan. Loved it but alas I had to return back to work. Retired and decided to come back to Japan. It is home really now. From here as a base I travel all over Asia. I've been in Japan a total of near 10 years now. Love it.

I honestly don't know if I will ever return to the US.