Discussion with a AD

[cdmorenot]

Originally Posted by TimeToWatch

Any lawyers in here? This sounds illegal to me.

In most US States, any retailer, can refuse service to anybody for any reason unless the business is discriminating.

It could be as simple as, sorry, you don't qualify for a purchase under our private policy or some other BS. Rolex and ADs can pretty much do whatever they want.

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[SPMN]

Federico Talks Watches had a video about this a few weeks back. I've included it below. The issue has been talked about for a long time here, but it was pretty nice to see the Gray/AD relationship confirmed from a Gray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMYY...coTalksWatches

This is going to continue as long as Rolex forces AD's to purchase watches that don't move. Gray markets will always flourish when an entity, including a manufacturer, puts in place artificial barriers. What else can an AD do? They don't want to lose Rolex, and they can't keep on buying watches that just sit in display shelves.

I wonder if Rolex just wants to lower the number of AD's worldwide, and is putting in place some of these policies to weed out some of the lower-volume stores?

[Xelorpepsi]

Originally Posted by tbonesteak

When this economic expansion concludes, does anyone really believe Rolex will be trying to limit the amount of watches purchased?

Such late cycle arrogance, it's laughable.

Very well summarised!

[alex_moreno111]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Spot on and people who think differently are fooling themselves big time. Rolex is in the business to sell watches. You want to buy 20 of them? Please, go right ahead.

[Fleetlord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyam0ZV4H0


Well, Rolex could have its AD follow the Hermes model.

Appointments. Interviews. Assesments. Denial or Acceptance.

Like it or not, Rolex is a luxury good and stuff like this is what luxury brands do to protect their brand.

Breitling has none of these issues. You can buy as many as you like....they have plenty for you, but that is why the brand is bordering on irrelevant.

[tbonesteak]

The one thing I'm looking forward to the most from our next recession (whenever that might be, whether 2019, 2020, 2025, it is a guarantee it will happen), is the endless calls I'll be receiving from these ADs whose list I'm on.

AD: Hey Mr Tbone, great news!! We've got the xyz you've been waiting for, are you still interested?

Tbone: Hmmmm, that is some exciting news...








[lengthy pause]







Beg me, beg me to buy your watch

AD: I'm sorry?

Tbone: You're in a cashflow business, assuming the recession is highly unpleasant for you guys, so I'll repeat, BEG ME TO BUY YOUR WATCH!

[hambone1983]

I'd forego the begging, but start the negotiation by asking what kind of discount they'd be offering

[Nikrnic]

Will the Rolex gods know if my wife or kids make a straw purchase so I can be the real wearer

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[Xelorpepsi]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyam0ZV4H0


Well, Rolex could have its AD follow the Hermes model.

Appointments. Interviews. Assesments. Denial or Acceptance.

Like it or not, Rolex is a luxury good and stuff like this is what luxury brands do to protect their brand.

Breitling has none of these issues. You can buy as many as you like....they have plenty for you, but that is why the brand is bordering on irrelevant.

For reasons I do not want to disclose, I know the Hermes house extremely well. It has nothing to do with interviews and/ or assessments. Everybody can get a Birkin, but not everybody can get it on the spot...!

Both Rolex and Hermes make $$$ out of people's money. Right now, certain clients are more interesting than others because of their spending power and shopping habits. Now, if the shit hits the fan in those regions, they know exactly how to react and will change their target(s) in a matter of a few quarters. You go where your (good) customers are and you make sure they get the best experience possible.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Xelorpepsi

Right now, certain clients are more interesting than others because of their spending power and shopping habits.

Please add in social media / influence / status. There are other factors too of course.

[GodZji]

I bought 116610LN last month from the AD.
They called me again last week for 116610LV.
I said yes. Must be my luck.

[BillA]

My AD confirmed this story and more coming.

He told me that the AD will:

1. finger print you and send it to the FBI for verification of who you are.
2. you have to swear not to flip for 6 months or else they take away your first born child.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Xelorpepsi

For reasons I do not want to disclose, I know the Hermes house extremely well. It has nothing to do with interviews and/ or assessments. Everybody can get a Birkin, but not everybody can get it on the spot...!

Both Rolex and Hermes make $$$ out of people's money. Right now, certain clients are more interesting than others because of their spending power and shopping habits. Now, if the shit hits the fan in those regions, they know exactly how to react and will change their target(s) in a matter of a few quarters. You go where your (good) customers are and you make sure they get the best experience possible.

Excellent insight. Thanks for sharing.

It makes total sense....especially regarding "interesting" customers...

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by rexG

Wow!! .....one watch model per customer for life?? Thats a great business plan....

Absolute rubbish, IMO.

All the big trusted sellers are still in business and selling hot watches.

Why are they not out of business and in jail by now?

[exador]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

In 2006, the same games were being played by AD's. Maybe not everywhere but I know of many who did the "you must buy 20K to be considered for a SS Daytona, you must engrave the Daytona, you can only buy one Sub from our AD etc etc. 3 Years later, SS Daytonas were sitting in windows and greys had them less than MSRP.

A salient point for those paying $20K+ for a 116500. Recessions happen folks.

[dba]

Originally Posted by zjd168

impractical to enforce

More like impossible to enforce.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by exador

A salient point for those paying $20K+ for a 116500. Recessions happen folks.

With logic like that, you better make sure you're one of the cashed up buyers with enough liquidity to be able to follow through on picking up all those discounts.

[Largoshark]

I would think the "one watch of each model" policy would just encourage potential buyers to purchase from a grey dealer, rather than an AD, no? I mean, I get that this strategy targets grey dealers, but aren't they just creating more grey market buyers?

[Bobby T]

Originally Posted by tjfslaughter

I was at an AD over the weekend discussing the shortage. They pointed out a few things Rolex is doing to stop re-sellers.

1. A person can only purchase one model of watch (for instance one SD43, one sub, one Daytona, etc) in a lifetime. If they want to purchase another one a police report or insurance statement must be provided demonstrating that the watch was damaged or stolen.
2. Rolex is talking to certain dealers to identify habitual flippers and recommending banning sales to them.
3. They are tracking purchasers, not just the name on the warranty cards.

I am not sure if this applies to all dealers or just the large chains.

This definitely wins for the most ridiculous and inane post I have ever read on TRF .......who would believe this BS??

[Bobby T]

Originally Posted by BillA

My AD confirmed this story and more coming.

He told me that the AD will:

1. finger print you and send it to the FBI for verification of who you are.
2. you have to swear not to flip for 6 months or else they take away your first born child.

Finally, someone making sense......

[tjfslaughter]

Originally Posted by Bobby T

This definitely wins for the most ridiculous and inane post I have ever read on TRF .......who would believe this BS??

I don’t agree with you calling me a dummy. Time will tell. But I can say I have confirmed this with three different trusted sources. This is a mix of AD’s and Grey Market dealers. Enjoy the name calling.


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[Xelorpepsi]

Think about it for a second: you and your partner want the same 116610LV - something I have seen a lot in Japan for instance. Do you really think the AD will prevent a sale from happening just because you already own one. Sorry Mada/ Sir, it's only one Sub per family. Come on, it's common sense!

All the large luxury goods groups are now struggling to drive their top-line beyond inflation not to mention expanding further their margins. I highly doubt Rolex is in a much better position than most of its competitors despite the brand power. Their marketing costs are huge and controlling their own distribution network won't help from a profitability perspective. When the next meltdown happens, I doubt people all around the world will happily spend their money on a Submariner.

If anything, they should squeeze as much juice as possible til they can and/ or do like PP and increase their prices to test the price elasticity for their most sought after models.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Xelorpepsi

Think about it for a second: you and your partner want the same 116610LV - something I have seen a lot in Japan for instance. Do you really think the AD will prevent a sale from happening just because you already own one. Sorry Mada/ Sir, it's only one Sub per family. Come on, it's common sense!

All the large luxury goods groups are now struggling to drive their top-line beyond inflation not to mention expanding further their margins. I highly doubt Rolex is in a much better position than most of its competitors despite the brand power. Their marketing costs are huge and controlling their own distribution network won't help from a profitability perspective. When the next meltdown happens, I doubt people all around the world will happily spend their money on a Submariner.

If anything, they should squeeze as much juice as possible til they can and/ or do like PP and increase their prices to test the price elasticity for their most sought after models.

Why do you think Rolex hasn't raised prices yet? I would have expected it by now...

[AK797]

Originally Posted by jaydav2306

Makes me laugh all this talk of new rules and the way ADs operate. The situation in the UK is truly dire because without a doubt these ADs are back handing to the grey market.

You only have to see the amount of "2018 with stickers" stock that UK greys are getting on a weekly basis to know that this is happening, how Rolex stop that happening I don't know but it is happening

The squeezing of flippers is having an affect. Watchfinder used to have 5/6 LVcs selling well over retail since Sep, now they barely have one. ADs are no longer selling to greys directly on a mass scale as before, so most of their stock is from private flippers and they are being shut down, most greys will tell you stock is drying up.

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

Spot on and people who think differently are fooling themselves big time. Rolex is in the business to sell watches. You want to buy 20 of them? Please, go right ahead.

No Rolex is in the business of protecting the brand, these watches sell themselves so that is not the issue, the issue now is who is buying them and are Rolex just turning into a commodity being bought for gain by those who couldn't care less about the watch, just like a hot stock tip or a race punt. Rolex will never let that happen and will annoy (customers) and destroy (ADs) anyone who tries turns to turn this brand over.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Why do you think Rolex hasn't raised prices yet? I would have expected it by now...

This is the question, and one long discussed in the UK since 2016. They clearly don't like the greys taking so much money off their table, and yet supply control is their only response. I guess it is just a question of Rolex taking their sweet time to make permanent changes.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by AK797

The squeezing of flippers is having an affect. Watchfinder used to have 5/6 LVcs selling well over retail since Sep, now they barely have one. ADs are no longer selling to greys directly on a mass scale as before, so most of their stock is from private flippers and they are being shut down, most greys will tell you stock is drying up.



No Rolex is in the business of protecting the brand, these watches sell themselves so that is not the issue, the issue now is who is buying them and are Rolex just turning into a commodity being bought for gain by those who couldn't care less about the watch, just like a hot stock tip or a race punt. Rolex will never let that happen and will annoy (customers) and destroy (ADs) anyone who tries turns to turn this brand over.

We can agree to disagree. I do not disagree that Rolex is protecting their brand here a little but lets look at the big picture shall we? These watches sell themselves ...until they don't . Looking at this from a global business/consumer viewpoint here. And we have seen this exact scenario before. 1 year ago you could walk into any most any AD in the US and buy most of these watches if not all except for the SS Daytona at a discount. In the last recession I cannot tell you the number of AD's willing to sell any brand at discounts approaching 40% in some cases. Be it IWC, Omega, JLC or Panerai etc. Subs all over the US and my town were an easy 10-15% off for years and years. Prior to that recession SS sports were harder to get and discounts were nil for a few years. Why? because the economy was hot . This is a cycle. It happens. Its happened before and it will happen again. Could it be different this time? sure it could and truthfully who knows. I always am curious as to how these boom and busts cycles work. I have witnessed a couple now in my lifetime and they seem to follow a pattern. These are just my observations. Rolex is not PP or AP, they don't make 40K watches a year, they make nearly a million or maybe 800K but you get the point. Their reputation is stronger and better than ever. They are one of the most valuable brands in the world. All this on the forums gets so blown up like its really important stuff but remember 99.999% of Rolex purchasers have never been to TRF and never will be.

Thats my opinion and I could be wrong.

Rolex will not be able to sell 800K-1 mill-1.2 mill a year while telling AD's this person has bought their lifetime allotment of 1 Sub.

[jonnyz1245]

Originally Posted by AK797

This is the question, and one long discussed in the UK since 2016. They clearly don't like the greys taking so much money off their table, and yet supply control is their only response. I guess it is just a question of Rolex taking their sweet time to make permanent changes.

They are not controlling supply. The spike in demand from the booming global economy caught them off guard and they are were unable to meet demand. The swiss watch industry including Rolex were coming off 2 huge down years. 2017 caught them all by surprise.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

They are not controlling supply. The spike in demand from the booming global economy caught them off guard and they are were unable to meet demand. The swiss watch industry including Rolex were coming off 2 huge down years. 2017 caught them all by surprise.

This is definately a factor.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by AK797

The squeezing of flippers is having an affect. Watchfinder used to have 5/6 LVcs selling well over retail since Sep, now they barely have one. ADs are no longer selling to greys directly on a mass scale as before, so most of their stock is from private flippers and they are being shut down, most greys will tell you stock is drying up.



No Rolex is in the business of protecting the brand, these watches sell themselves so that is not the issue, the issue now is who is buying them and are Rolex just turning into a commodity being bought for gain by those who couldn't care less about the watch, just like a hot stock tip or a race punt. Rolex will never let that happen and will annoy (customers) and destroy (ADs) anyone who tries turns to turn this brand over.

I would have to agree.
Rolex are trying to help people who want to buy their first Rolex watch get their most desired piece by making it more available.
There will be some pain in the interim.

[Dompropat]

Might be the funniest thing I've seen all day.