ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

opaline460 · 23 May 2018, 12:13 PM

I would told the AD to f*** off.

outtatime · 24 May 2018, 03:36 AM

What would amuse me is if Rolex let's all the grays and forum dealers accumulate these pieces and list them for $15k+, and then suddenly dump inventory on their dealers so anyone can walk in and get one at MSRP. That could bankrupt some of these folks pretty quickly, if they're paying a high premium to begin with.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

What would amuse me is if Rolex let's all the grays and forum dealers accumulate these pieces and list them for $15k+, and then suddenly dump inventory on their dealers so anyone can walk in and get one at MSRP. That could bankrupt some of these folks pretty quickly, if they're paying a high premium to begin with.

or just let the AD's participate in the free market the secondary dealers already get to participate in. Then no need for them at all.

They have a monopoly on market pricing and if the AD's could compete in that same market, it might actually drive prices down. Two separate markets doesn't work....Currently AD's have a monopoly on MSRP so they have enormous power over retail buyers and secondary dealers as a group have control over non authorized dealer pricing. If you could allow AD's to get in on the action the grey dealers prices would probably have to go down if all AD's were selling daytonas for 18K as who wants to buy a used one from the grey market for that much?

russ86 · 24 May 2018, 03:46 AM

Totally Disgusting for AD to do something like that, BUT, 15.5k is a reasonable price, I would get it I was you. If you don't want it, let me know I will re-buy it from you because my AD's waiting list is soooo long they stopped putting people on it.

outtatime · 24 May 2018, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

or just let the AD's participate in the free market the secondary dealers already get to participate in. Then no need for them at all.

They have a monopoly on market pricing and if the AD's could compete in that same market, it might actually drive prices down. Two separate markets doesn't work....Currently AD's have a monopoly on MSRP so they have enormous power over retail buyers and secondary dealers as a group have control over non authorized dealer pricing. If you could allow AD's to get in on the action the grey dealers prices would probably have to go down if all AD's were selling daytonas for 18K as who wants to buy a used one from the grey market for that much?

Or better yet, just start selling direct. There will be a time when people do not want the "AD experience" (I know I don't). The value-add just isn't there.

Let people order them online. If there's a wait, there's a wait. But get rid of this decades-old good-old-boy 1950's "know somebody that knows somebody" network crap.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

Or better yet, just start selling direct. There will be a time when people do not want the "AD experience" (I know I don't). The value-add just isn't there.

Let people order them online. If there's a wait, there's a wait. But get rid of this decades-old good-old-boy 1950's "know somebody that knows somebody" network crap.

selling direct is the same problem and its still 2 separate markets. As long as products are not being sold at market prices then people will flip them and it will be harder for you to get one. It doesn't fix anything, i am just as likely to flip a Daytona from Rolex as i would be from an AD if the retail price and the market price remain where they are.

Retail price is a discount and anytime anything is on sale people want it because its on sale. Watches depreciate even Daytonas if they are sold at market prices. Current RRP doesnt make the watches investments it just makes them poorly priced. You buy one at market price and sell it two weeks later you will lose money. That is normal, the current pricing is not.

People are not really mad at AD's they are mad at the parallel market which is a big reason the AD experience has deteriorated.

sager · 24 May 2018, 04:01 AM

Honestly, I had them put me on the list and am now expecting to receive the watch sometime in September. I will be purchasing it and comparing it against my 16710 for about month.

One of them will be going on the chopping block. Not sure which one yet.

I will make this promise though: If I decide to sell the new Pepsi, I will sell it for the exact same price as purchased no matter how high the price goes on the gray market.

I'm not in this to make a profit. I am here because I love this hobby

lovetherolex · 24 May 2018, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

selling direct is the same problem and its still 2 separate markets. As long as products are not being sold at market prices then people will flip them and it will be harder for you to get one. It doesn't fix anything, i am just as likely to flip a Daytona from Rolex as i would be from an AD if the retail price and the market price remain where they are.

Retail price is a discount and anytime anything is on sale people want it because its on sale. Watches depreciate even Daytonas if they are sold at market prices. Current RRP doesnt make the watches investments it just makes them poorly priced. You buy one at market price and sell it two weeks later you will lose money. That is normal, the current pricing is not.

People are not really mad at AD's they are mad at the parallel market which is a big reason the AD experience has deteriorated.

That assumes the requirement for Rolex to artificially constrain supply and create this demand and the parallel market.

Let’s not forget, Rolex are doing it on purpose, and the grey market pricing is not a function of “this is what the watch is worth”, it’s a function of “I have it and you don’t.”

outtatime · 24 May 2018, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

selling direct is the same problem and its still 2 separate markets. As long as products are not being sold at market prices then people will flip them and it will be harder for you to get one. It doesn't fix anything, i am just as likely to flip a Daytona from Rolex as i would be from an AD if the retail price and the market price remain where they are.

Retail price is a discount and anytime anything is on sale people want it because its on sale. Watches depreciate even Daytonas if they are sold at market prices. Current RRP doesnt make the watches investments it just makes them poorly priced. You buy one at market price and sell it two weeks later you will lose money. That is normal, the current pricing is not.

People are not really mad at AD's they are mad at the parallel market which is a big reason the AD experience has deteriorated.

There are always parallel markets. I collect toys. If something is hot (or likely to be), I can preorder online at MSRP (or close to it). I can always flip later, but scalpers will preorder as well but the stuff will also be found in stores. If I choose not to preorder, it's more likely I'll have to pick it up on the secondary market.

I don't have that option with a Rolex. Because I don't buy hundreds of watches a year, an AD will go sell to <insert forum dealer> first who will then list it at 50% over MSRP.

If I want a new Star Wars LEGO set coming out at retail, and I don't pre-order it I may have to wait months for it to become available again (if at all).

05carbondrz · 24 May 2018, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

selling direct is the same problem and its still 2 separate markets. As long as products are not being sold at market prices then people will flip them and it will be harder for you to get one. It doesn't fix anything, i am just as likely to flip a Daytona from Rolex as i would be from an AD if the retail price and the market price remain where they are.

Retail price is a discount and anytime anything is on sale people want it because its on sale. Watches depreciate even Daytonas if they are sold at market prices. Current RRP doesnt make the watches investments it just makes them poorly priced. You buy one at market price and sell it two weeks later you will lose money. That is normal, the current pricing is not.

People are not really mad at AD's they are mad at the parallel market which is a big reason the AD experience has deteriorated.

The AD “experience” is dead my Friend(For Your everyday Guy/Gal).The Second a new Customer comes in you are sized up on how far they can stick it to You...Great experience! Mark my Words,The AD’s WILL feel the pain down the Road...Too many pissed off potential Customers.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

There are always parallel markets. I collect toys. If something is hot (or likely to be), I can preorder online at MSRP (or close to it). I can always flip later, but scalpers will preorder as well but the stuff will also be found in stores. If I choose not to preorder, it's more likely I'll have to pick it up on the secondary market.

I don't have that option with a Rolex. Because I don't buy hundreds of watches a year, an AD will go sell to <insert forum dealer> first who will then list it at 50% over MSRP.

If I want a new Star Wars LEGO set coming out at retail, and I don't pre-order it I may have to wait months for it to become available again (if at all).

retail is an absolutely arbitrary price, thats my point. You can have any product you want at market prices. If AD's sold watches at market prices they would be fully stocked all the time. Scalpers/flippers or whoever are taking advantage of an artificially low price and buying before you. You don't have to buy 100 watches a year if all AD's sold for market prices. You would have to buy 1 and it would be in stock. The relationship is only necessary in the first place because these products are selling for so far below their true market value.

affalterbach · 24 May 2018, 05:02 AM

Grab it while you can. You should be able to flip for $20K.

Raza_actual · 24 May 2018, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sager

So the title says it all.

There are a few ADs in Europe and South America with whom I have good relationships with. Usually, they provide me with watches that are hard to obtain within weeks.

This one particular AD (someone I have known for a while) just called me a told me that he can have the new SS GMT Pepsi in my hands no later than July. I was extremely excited until he asked for 15.5K. When I asked why, I was told that this is within the range of the agreed AD prices in the area.

I really know these guys and they have always given me excellent service and never charged a premium. Not even for the Daytona C.

Is this normal? Is this becoming regular practice for some ADs now?

Agreed? I can’t speak for Europe and South America, but in the United States, that sounds like price fixing, which is federally illegal. If any US dealers are consulting with other dealers to set prices, that’s a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

outtatime · 24 May 2018, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

retail is an absolutely arbitrary price, thats my point. You can have any product you want at market prices. If AD's sold watches at market prices they would be fully stocked all the time. Scalpers/flippers or whoever are taking advantage of an artificially low price and buying before you. You don't have to buy 100 watches a year if all AD's sold for market prices. You would have to buy 1 and it would be in stock. The relationship is only necessary in the first place because these products are selling for so far below their true market value.

Ok, then I guess you're free to pay a forum dealer $18k for a CHNR. For me, no thanks.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

Agreed? I can’t speak for Europe and South America, but in the United States, that sounds like price fixing, which is federally illegal. If any US dealers are consulting with other dealers to set prices, that’s a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act.

and you couldn't prove a thing. The "agreed" price also happens to be pretty close to the free market price and actually probably below. You would not win

MSRP is a set price agreed upon too.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

Ok, then I guess you're free to pay a forum dealer $18k for a CHNR. For me, no thanks.

its the real price. Thats all im saying.

Raza_actual · 24 May 2018, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kangajack

I don’t understand the surprise. The ADs would be selling them under market price if they sold them for what is currently listed as suggested retail price. They should have every right to charge what they want, and consumers should have every right to buy one, or not buy one. When the demand for certain watches ebbs, you guys are the ones asking for discounts... right? It goes both ways. There is nothing sacred about MSRP.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not necessarily. Rolex has authorized dealers—presumably, there’s a contract in place which limits the rights and designates the responsibilities of each involved party. While not illegal to charge more or less than MSRP, they may well be in violation of their contract with Rolex.

Raza_actual · 24 May 2018, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

and you couldn't prove a thing. The "agreed" price also happens to be pretty close to the free market price and actually probably below. You would not win

If the dealer admitted it in those words, then that sounds like a confession, don’t you think?

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

If the dealer admitted it in those words, then that sounds like a confession, don’t you think?

admitted to what. Pricing their product in line with the free market? They are not setting a price, they are responding to the market. When delta raises ticket prices because demand goes up, then the other airlines follow. They don't "agree" formally but they absolutely follow each others lead.

Raza_actual · 24 May 2018, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

admitted to what. Pricing their product in line with the free market? They are not setting a price, they are responding to the market. When delta raises ticket prices because demand goes up, then the other airlines follow. They don't "agree" formally but they absolutely follow each others lead.

“Agreed” is what the OP said. That’s not the free market. That’s price fixing. I’m not talking about Delta or the “free” market (an illusion, of course, speaking as someone with a finance degree and a former financial analyst), I’m talking about this instance here, where the OP said the dealer agreed upon the price with other dealers. Now, that may not be illegal in the AD’s country—but it is in the US.

Now maybe something has been lost in translation, as I realize that English isn’t everyone’s first language, but were it an agreed upon price by dealers in the area, then it’s price fixing, which would be illegal if it occurred in the US (which, of course, it didn’t in this case).

Duey · 24 May 2018, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outtatime

Or better yet, just start selling direct. There will be a time when people do not want the "AD experience" (I know I don't). The value-add just isn't there.

Let people order them online. If there's a wait, there's a wait. But get rid of this decades-old good-old-boy 1950's "know somebody that knows somebody" network crap.

Jon, I'm with you 100% on this one. And yes I have a connection but the future is here why not embrace it. The only reason people don't want it is because they will soon be normalized with everyone else. Can you imagine an equal playing field for all. Put together a list of all the luxury brands that are doing this right now, and yes if you want to walk into a boutique you still can. Just check "buy it" and wait for it to show up. Rolex will have a record of all of their buyers. And Rolex can control their product too, not an AD.
This above all else will remove most of the gray market and flipper too ...

NappaLover · 24 May 2018, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuk0nxl1

The more I think about this the more I wonder if this is the signal of a price increase.

No, this is a signal of greed.

I would never contact or visit that AD again.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raza_actual

“Agreed” is what the OP said. That’s not the free market. That’s price fixing. I’m not talking about Delta or the “free” market (an illusion, of course, speaking as someone with a finance degree and a former financial analyst), I’m talking about this instance here, where the OP said the dealer agreed upon the price with other dealers. Now, that may not be illegal in the AD’s country—but it is in the US.

Now maybe something has been lost in translation, as I realize that English isn’t everyone’s first language, but were it an agreed upon price by dealers in the area, then it’s price fixing, which would be illegal if it occurred in the US (which, of course, it didn’t in this case).

its a hard thing to prove if its not on tape at an AD meeting with every AD present where this happened or on a letter everyone signed. If one AD says we all agreed to this, the other AD'S can say "no we didn't". You cant prove it.

Raza_actual · 24 May 2018, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its a hard thing to prove if its not on tape at an AD meeting with every AD present where this happened or on a letter everyone signed. If someone says we all agreed the other AD'S can say "no we didn't". You cant prove it.

I agree that it’s hard to prove. Not saying that it isn’t. I never said it wasn’t. You’re the one who jumped on the hard to prove train and then got argumentative about it.

sager · 24 May 2018, 05:33 AM

To clarify, yes, I did use the word "agreed" and that was exactly what was explained to me:

All ADs in the area communicate and agree on a set price for new Rolex watches. After that, they communicate it with the clients/customers. This is why the price was not communicated to me until a few months after Basel. They needed time to set the price which is US $15,500.

When I expressed that I thought this was way above MSRP, they further explained to me that Rolex has nothing to do with the prices they set.

I recognize that this is kind of strange but I am just sharing what I was told. Also, the sales person could have been wrong in her explanation.

tyler1980 · 24 May 2018, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sager

To clarify, yes, I did use the word "agreed" and that was exactly what was explained to me:

All ADs in the area communicate and agree on a set price for new Rolex watches. After that, they communicate it with the clients/customers. This is why the price was not communicated to me until a few months after Basel. They needed time to set the price which is US $15,500.

When I expressed that I thought this was way above MSRP, they further explained to me that Rolex has nothing to do with the prices they set.

I recognize that this is kind of strange but I am just sharing what I was told. Also, the sales person could have been wrong in her explanation.

i don't doubt it. I think it is happening to some extent. Some dealers also set prices based on chrono24 prices as a reference. I doubt the fact anyone can really do anything about it.

Rentalcarman · 24 May 2018, 05:50 AM

Much as I hate that ADs can charge more. The "S" in MSRP is "Suggested" which means this is the price that the Manufacturer recommends that you can charge or you can charge more or less. The market will determine what the prices will actually be. If someone asks too much then it will just sit there and if they ask to little the watch will fly off the shelf. Sometimes I am steadfast that I will not pay over MSRP and want a discount and other times I am like Verucca in Willy Wonka and I want it NOW!!! and will pay a premium. Nothing wrong either way in my book.

Duey · 24 May 2018, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sager

To clarify, yes, I did use the word "agreed" and that was exactly what was explained to me:

All ADs in the area communicate and agree on a set price for new Rolex watches. After that, they communicate it with the clients/customers. This is why the price was not communicated to me until a few months after Basel. They needed time to set the price which is US $15,500.

When I expressed that I thought this was way above MSRP, they further explained to me that Rolex has nothing to do with the prices they set.

I recognize that this is kind of strange but I am just sharing what I was told. Also, the sales person could have been wrong in her explanation.

Online purchase from Rolex and this would all go away ........

JM0127 · 24 May 2018, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duey

online purchase from rolex and this would all go away ........

this!

sager · 24 May 2018, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM0127

this!

Absolutely this!!

24 May 2018, 03:36 AM	#182
outtatime "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Real Name: Jon Location: Toledo, OH Watch: Deepsea Posts: 1,136	What would amuse me is if Rolex let's all the grays and forum dealers accumulate these pieces and list them for $15k+, and then suddenly dump inventory on their dealers so anyone can walk in and get one at MSRP. That could bankrupt some of these folks pretty quickly, if they're paying a high premium to begin with. __________________ The above represents my opinion. I may be wrong, but that's how I feel. Scratches ≠ "Character"

24 May 2018, 05:33 AM	#205
sager "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Real Name: Sage Location: MENA Posts: 1,563	I was quoted $15.5k for the new SS GMT Pepsi To clarify, yes, I did use the word "agreed" and that was exactly what was explained to me: All ADs in the area communicate and agree on a set price for new Rolex watches. After that, they communicate it with the clients/customers. This is why the price was not communicated to me until a few months after Basel. They needed time to set the price which is US $15,500. When I expressed that I thought this was way above MSRP, they further explained to me that Rolex has nothing to do with the prices they set. I recognize that this is kind of strange but I am just sharing what I was told. Also, the sales person could have been wrong in her explanation.

24 May 2018, 05:50 AM	#207
Rentalcarman 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Real Name: Alex Location: Maryland,usa Watch: None at the moment Posts: 1,174	Much as I hate that ADs can charge more. The "S" in MSRP is "Suggested" which means this is the price that the Manufacturer recommends that you can charge or you can charge more or less. The market will determine what the prices will actually be. If someone asks too much then it will just sit there and if they ask to little the watch will fly off the shelf. Sometimes I am steadfast that I will not pay over MSRP and want a discount and other times I am like Verucca in Willy Wonka and I want it NOW!!! and will pay a premium. Nothing wrong either way in my book. __________________ Nothing is as good as getting what we really want!! The value of something is determined by the price that we are willing to pay, not what someone says we should pay!!

23 May 2018, 12:13 PM	#181
opaline460 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: US Posts: 3,386	I would told the AD to f*** off.

24 May 2018, 03:46 AM	#184
russ86 "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Real Name: Ross C. Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 964	Totally Disgusting for AD to do something like that, BUT, 15.5k is a reasonable price, I would get it I was you. If you don't want it, let me know I will re-buy it from you because my AD's waiting list is soooo long they stopped putting people on it.

24 May 2018, 04:01 AM	#187
sager "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Real Name: Sage Location: MENA Posts: 1,563	Honestly, I had them put me on the list and am now expecting to receive the watch sometime in September. I will be purchasing it and comparing it against my 16710 for about month. One of them will be going on the chopping block. Not sure which one yet. I will make this promise though: If I decide to sell the new Pepsi, I will sell it for the exact same price as purchased no matter how high the price goes on the gray market. I'm not in this to make a profit. I am here because I love this hobby

24 May 2018, 05:02 AM	#192
affalterbach "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Rob Location: USA Watch: Seiko SUN065P1 Posts: 359	Grab it while you can. You should be able to flip for $20K.

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