How do you feel about....

[City74]

In searching for my first Rolex I have come across something that bothers me. Why is it that many 2nd hand dealers on here and other sites charge more for using your credit card? No brick and mortar stores do this. It gives me the feeling that they are a “second rate” business. I’m not saying they are, as many have superb reputations and honestly I would buy from them and even pay the fees, although I wouldn’t be happy about it. It’s just the feeling it gives me having to pay more to use a credit card. Yes I know about margins and such but to me fees and that sort of thing are part of the cost of doing business.

How does everyone else feel about this?

BTW, please do not read this as an insult to sellers who do charge more for credit card use. I’m NOT saying they aren’t good sellers or junk businesses. I’m simply stating the feeling I personally get for paying more to use a credit card

[dmash]

You’re completely misunderstanding the price is your error. They’re not adding a premium to pay with a credit card. They’re simply discounting 3% if you pay via transfer and showcasing this price to begin with as everybody pays that way.

Most every good AD will do the exact same thing, as their bottom line remains the same.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dmash

You’re completely misunderstanding the price is your error. They’re not adding a premium to pay with a credit card. They’re simply discounting 3% if you pay via transfer and showcasing this price to begin with as everybody pays that way.

Most every good AD will do the exact same thing, as their bottom line remains the same.

I disagree. Their price is posted. They charge back the credit card and paypal fees. It's not the customary way of doing business in most of the consumer world.

AD's may discount for paying cash. But you can't rely on that.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I disagree. Their price is posted. They charge back the credit card and paypal fees. It's not the customary way of doing business in most of the consumer world.

AD's may discount for paying cash. But you can't rely on that.

There’s plenty of examples where this applies and ‘cash price’ is given. They are simply marketing the best price and giving you the option. They’re pocketing the same thing either way.

This is like arguing ‘id rather not have the option of BP giving me 2.50 cash and 2.57 credit card on my gas purchases, id simply rather them just charge me 2.57 for all purchases’.

It’s not like these retailers are trying to pull a fast one, it’s always explicitly detailed.

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

You’re completely misunderstanding the price is your error. They’re not adding a premium to pay with a credit card. They’re simply discounting 3% if you pay via transfer and showcasing this price to begin with as everybody pays that way.

Most every good AD will do the exact same thing, as their bottom line remains the same.

I don’t agree. No other sort of business does it this way that I know of

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dmash

There’s plenty of examples where this applies and ‘cash price’ is given. They are simply marketing the best price and giving you the option. They’re pocketing the same thing either way.

This is like arguing ‘id rather not have the option of BP giving me 2.50 cash and 2.57 credit card on my gas purchases, id simply rather them just charge me 2.57 for all purchases’.

It’s not like these retailers are trying to pull a fast one, it’s always explicitly detailed.

Most businesses build the fees into their price.

The watch pricing is more entrepreneurial than most places you would use a CC. These guys all started out small and the fees are a pretty big chunk of a luxury watch sale. They are simply breaking even on the fees. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just not customary in the consumer world.

[City74]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I disagree. Their price is posted. They charge back the credit card and paypal fees. It's not the customary way of doing business in most of the consumer world.

AD's may discount for paying cash. But you can't rely on that.

Yep, I agree

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by City74

How does everyone else feel about this?

100% fine by me. Any smart business person / buyer knows the situation is under the BUYERS control in how much 'discount' they are seeking and 'service' they desire on taking a CC payment

Said another way, CC fees matter not as it is the end-results that's the same. It is YOU who chooses how much 'discount' you want and if you want to pay your CC for their money lending services. No smart business person (or someone with 3rd grade knowledge of math) would expect the seller to offer both a super duper low price AND take CC as payment that costs the dealer ~3%.


Kinda related, here's food for thought.

Pick Any Two
1. High Quality Product
2. Low Price
3. Great Customer Service

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

There’s plenty of examples where this applies and ‘cash price’ is given. They are simply marketing the best price and giving you the option. They’re pocketing the same thing either way.

This is like arguing ‘id rather not have the option of BP giving me 2.50 cash and 2.57 credit card on my gas purchases, id simply rather them just charge me 2.57 for all purchases’.

It’s not like these retailers are trying to pull a fast one, it’s always explicitly detailed.

I’m fine with paying the $2.57 for gas with credit card, the thing is the cash price is the same. These dealers aren’t doing that

[dmash]

So I ask you both the same thing. You’re really saying, you’d really not have a cheaper option to pay cash/bank transfer?

[City74]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

100% fine by me. Any smart business person / buyer knows the situation is under the BUYERS control in how much 'discount' they are seeking and 'service' they desire on taking a CC payment

Said another way, CC fees matter not as it is the end-results that's the same. It is YOU who chooses how much 'discount' you want and if you want to pay your CC for their money lending services. No smart business person (or someone with 3rd grade knowledge of math) would expect the seller to offer both a super duper low price AND take CC as payment that costs the dealer ~3%.


Kinda related, here's food for thought.

Pick Any Two
1. High Quality Product
2. Low Price
3. Great Customer Service

So Sam Walton wasn’t a smart business person? Maybe it’s just me and my 2nd grade math knowledge

[dmash]

Originally Posted by City74

I’m fine with paying the $2.57 for gas with credit card, the thing is the cash price is the same. These dealers aren’t doing that

So you’re seriously saying, ‘id Rather not have an option to save money’.



Um, yeah, ok

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

So I ask you both the same thing. You’re really saying, you’d really not have a cheaper option to pay cash/bank transfer?

Correct. First, I won’t send a bank transfer to anyone especially a “small business” that can’t even absorb CC fees. Next I pay with CC because in the end I save more money with cash back or points or the like

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

So you’re seriously saying, ‘id Rather not have an option to save money’.



Um, yeah, ok

No I’m stating that when you buy gas it’s the same price cash or credit

[dmash]

Originally Posted by City74

So Sam Walton wasn’t a smart business person? Maybe it’s just me and my 2nd grade math knowledge

Now you’re comparing WalMart, worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to a small business.

Originally Posted by City74

No I’m stating that when you buy gas it’s the same price cash or credit

Absolutely not always the case, I’ve seen countless gas stations with a cheaper ‘cash price’.

Originally Posted by City74

Correct. First, I won’t send a bank transfer to anyone especially a “small business” that can’t even absorb CC fees. Next I pay with CC because in the end I save more money with cash back or points or the like

Your understanding of small businesses, bottom lines and what you deem an appropriate discount is all a little wonky.

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

Now you’re comparing WalMart, worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to a small business.



Absolutely not always the case, I’ve seen countless gas stations with a cheaper ‘cash price’.



Your understanding of small businesses, bottom lines and what you deem an appropriate discount is all a little wonky.

No, I replied to a blanket statement that NO business man.....etc etc. when in fact that wasn’t true

I have never seen any gas station with a discount for cash

That’s funny, because I have ran a profitable small business for years and I don’t charge CC fees.

In the end my post was meant to say that it is not customary in the US market to charge more for using CC. That was my point

[dmash]

Originally Posted by City74

No, I replied to a blanket statement that NO business man.....etc etc. when in fact that wasn’t true

I have never seen any gas station with a discount for cash

That’s funny, because I have ran a profitable small business for years and I don’t charge CC fees.

In the end my post was meant to say that it is not customary in the US market to charge more for using CC. That was my point

I’ve seen numerous gas stations in Florida (where I lived for years) offer cash pricing on gas. Not sure where you live, but it’s very common there.

Is your profitable small business for services rendered or flipping a product that you bought from another individual/business? Honestly, this is all kind of common sense......they’re simply giving you the best price they can offer, while maintaining the profit margin required. It’s not that they can’t ‘absorb’ the credit card fees, it’s that they have figures to buy and sell, and a 3% deviation changes those figures.


And again, I still don’t understand your logic. You’re making the case that you want the same price for credit card and cash. I absolutely would not want this, who in the world doesn’t want the *option* for a 3% discount paying cash. I believe your only issue is they way the offer it. If the watch was simply ‘$10,000’ but then they offered a ‘3% discount to pay cash, you’d probbaly have no issue.


Thousands of businesses in Germany also offer this. It’s just common sense, why not pass along the savings to a consumer if the business is not having to eat credit card processing fees?

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

I’ve seen numerous gas stations in Florida (where I lived for years) offer cash pricing on gas. Not sure where you live, but it’s very common there.

Is your profitable small business for services rendered or flipping a product that you bought from another individual/business? Honestly, this is all kind of common sense......they’re simply giving you the best price they can offer, while maintaining the profit margin required. It’s not that they can’t ‘absorb’ the credit card fees, it’s that they have figures to buy and sell, and a 3% deviation changes those figures.


And again, I still don’t understand your logic. You’re making the case that you want the same price for credit card and cash. I absolutely would not want this, who in the world doesn’t want the *option* for a 3% discount paying cash. I believe your only issue is they way the offer it. If the watch was simply ‘$10,000’ but then they offered a ‘3% discount to pay cash, you’d probbaly have no issue.


Thousands of businesses in Germany also offer this. It’s just common sense, why not pass along the savings to a consumer if the business is not having to eat credit card processing fees?

Again, it isn’t common practice. I cannot walk into any store I know of (large or small) and get a discount when paying cash. Not one. It is assumed that cash and CC prices are the same wherever you go.

My business is sales and I don’t offer a “discount” no matter the payment method, it’s same cash or credit. I factor in the costs of doing business in my asking price, as does every other business I know of, except for some online watch sellers. I’m sure there are others but they are a vast minority

[dmash]

Originally Posted by City74

Again, it isn’t common practice. I cannot walk into any store I know of (large or small) and get a discount when paying cash. Not one. It is assumed that cash and CC prices are the same wherever you go.

My business is sales and I don’t offer a “discount” no matter the payment method, it’s same cash or credit. I factor in the costs of doing business in my asking price, as does every other business I know of, except for some online watch sellers. I’m sure there are others but they are a vast minority

Well, I guess you have your experience/opinion and I have mine. I enjoy the option of getting a discount, if you’d rather just pay a flat rate, that’s your call.

What you should probably do is stop comparing these Grey market watch guys to ‘all’ businesses. Compare them to ‘resellers’ of other goods, and you’ll realize it’s not that uncommon. If I buy something for 1000 and need a 10%/$100 profit. I can sell to you for $1100 plus shipping via wire, or $1100 plus shipping + PayPal fees. It’s literally this simple.

Would you also not understand why somebody selling something on eBay for $1000 wouldn’t also say ‘or if you meet in person, I’ll give it to you for $900 as I don’t have the 10% eBay fees’. Or would that also upset you, and would prefer him to only give you the higher price?

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

Well, I guess you have your experience/opinion and I have mine. I enjoy the option of getting a discount, if you’d rather just pay a flat rate, that’s your call.

What you should probably do is stop comparing these Grey market watch guys to ‘all’ businesses. Compare them to ‘resellers’ of other goods, and you’ll realize it’s not that uncommon. If I buy something for 1000 and need a 10%/$100 profit. I can sell to you for $1100 plus shipping via wire, or $1100 plus shipping + PayPal fees. It’s literally this simple.

Would you also not understand why somebody selling something on eBay for $1000 wouldn’t also say ‘or if you meet in person, I’ll give it to you for $900 as I don’t have the 10% eBay fees’. Or would that also upset you, and would prefer him to only give you the higher price?

Your totally misunderstanding my point. So I’ll just quit replying to you

[dmash]

Originally Posted by City74

Your totally misunderstanding my point. So I’ll just quit replying to you

Haha, I completely understand, and I’m simply questioning your logic. If that makes you uncomfortable, ok? Your original point of this thread was to garner opinions, you get them and don’t want to talk?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by dmash

Well, I guess you have your experience/opinion and I have mine. I enjoy the option of getting a discount, if you’d rather just pay a flat rate, that’s your call.

What you should probably do is stop comparing these Grey market watch guys to ‘all’ businesses. Compare them to ‘resellers’ of other goods, and you’ll realize it’s not that uncommon. If I buy something for 1000 and need a 10%/$100 profit. I can sell to you for $1100 plus shipping via wire, or $1100 plus shipping + PayPal fees. It’s literally this simple.

Would you also not understand why somebody selling something on eBay for $1000 wouldn’t also say ‘or if you meet in person, I’ll give it to you for $900 as I don’t have the 10% eBay fees’. Or would that also upset you, and would prefer him to only give you the higher price?

Except you are mischaracterizing the watch sellers. They have set their asking price for all to see, and are very openly adding fees for some payment methods. There is no discount for wire, there is only a penalty for other forms of payment that encourages buyers to choose wire transfer. There isn't anything shady about it, but it's not appropriate to characterize their posted price as a discount.

A discount is when I negotiate a lower price than they have asked in their posting.

[City74]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Except you are mischaracterizing the watch sellers. They have set their asking price for all to see, and are very openly adding fees for some payment methods. There is no discount for wire, there is only a penalty for other forms of payment that encourages buyers to choose wire transfer. There isn't anything shady about it, but it's not appropriate to characterize their posted price as a discount.

A discount is when I negotiate a lower price than they have asked in their posting.

That’s just my point. It isn’t shady just not how business is typically done here

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Except you are mischaracterizing the watch sellers. They have set their asking price for all to see, and are very openly adding fees for some payment methods. There is no discount for wire, there is only a penalty for other forms of payment that encourages buyers to choose wire transfer. There isn't anything shady about it, but it's not appropriate to characterize their posted price as a discount.

A discount is when I negotiate a lower price than they have asked in their posting.

So are you saying, it would be better, if they simply reworded the listing, to be the 'normal price' and then minus 3% for cash? Even though they're going to be the EXACT same prices?

Kind of makes no sense to me....but I guess the addition of money instead of a subtraction of it, could fluster some potential buyers.

Originally Posted by City74

That’s just my point. It isn’t shady just not how business is typically done here

No, that wasn't your point whatsoever. You repeatedly kept saying that you think the price should be the same for cash and credit card and that a 'cash discount' isn't normal business practice.

[City74]

Originally Posted by dmash

So are you saying, it would be better, if they simply reworded the listing, to be the 'normal price' and then minus 3% for cash? Even though they're going to be the EXACT same prices?

Kind of makes no sense to me....but I guess the addition of money instead of a subtraction of it, could fluster some potential buyers.



No, that wasn't your point whatsoever. You repeatedly kept saying that you think the price should be the same for cash and credit card and that a 'cash discount' isn't normal business practice.

A cash discount from online sellers ISNT a normal business practice. I’m not going to argue with you. You view it one way and I view it another. Simple as that. Move on

[TheVTCGuy]

You asked “how do you feel...” To answer your question, I have no problem with it. The seller has to pay fees and probably has more hassle with a cc purchase, the prices are not secretive, they are stated up front, and I am given the choice. I believe CC fees are in the area of 3%, so why ask the seller to reduce his price by that much? Which effectively is what you are requesting. You are the buyer, if you do not accept that price, don’t buy.

[City74]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

You asked “how do you feel...” To answer your question, I have no problem with it. The seller has to pay fees and probably has more hassle with a cc purchase, the prices are not secretive, they are stated up front, and I am given the choice. I believe CC fees are in the area of 3%, so why ask the seller to reduce his price by that much? Which effectively is what you are requesting. You are the buyer, if you do not accept that price, don’t buy.

I can see your point. I guess since having an option and the cash or credit prices are different it strikes me as odd. If I were to buy from any of them I would ask for the cash price even if paying by CC. If they couldn’t do that then I would most likely not buy. Again no knock on these sellers. It’s just my frame of mind I guess


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[brandrea]

I think what’s driving this is that the credit card fees and bank fees are shown as a separate line on the income statement. If the business owner sees 3% fees on say a million dollars in sales it’s not in significant.

My accountant approached me last year, showing what our business spent in Credit card feees and suggested we add the fees in a simsilar way. I told her I’d have nothing to do with it. Bottom line is, the customer is paying for the product and nowadays credit card is the preferred method of payment. I’d rather see it built into the price, than say to my customer ... “I want you want you to buy my product and by the way, if you use a credit card it’ll costyou extra.”

Bottom line, it’s always irked me when I see an extra charge added to cover credit card fee and IMO, the optics make it sound “cheap”.

So that’s how I feel irked

[City74]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I think what’s driving this is that the credit card fees and bank fees are shown as a separate line on the income statement. If the business owner sees 3% fees on say a million dollars in sales it’s not in significant.



My accountant approached me last year, showing what our business spent in Credit card feees and suggested we add the fees in a simsilar way. I told her I’d have nothing to do with it. Bottom line is, the customer is paying for the product and nowadays credit card is the preferred method of payment. I’d rather see it built into the price, than say to my customer ... “I want you want you to buy my product and by the way, if you use a credit card it’ll costyou extra.”



Bottom line, it’s always irked me when I see an extra charge added to cover credit card fee and IMO, the optics make it sound “cheap”.



So that’s how I feel irked

Very well put


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[Keadog]

Bank wires can't be reversed. Did no one mention that or did I miss it in my hurried reading of the thread?