The official FIFA World Cup 2018 thread

[KBM]

In regards to Neymar, I'll offer this final comment on the subject: fans and journalists from a handful of opponent countries may well make fun and laugh of him for as long as it pleases them. Too bad nothing is said about the constant violence used to stop his skill. That is what shames the game above all else.

So long as he keeps crushing games like he did today, they can keep laughing while he lifts the trophie.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by GerardoG

FANTASTIC game!

Last time this happened according to Fox!
1970 WC México

West Germany vs England quarterfinals
Germany down 0-2 ...
ties and goes into O/T
W. Germany wins 3-2

Absolutely Amazing and smashing game !!!

Japan really gave Belgium a run for their money...

[FTX I]

He gets a lot of criticism, I know, but he's a young talented guy, the world's most expensive deal in football history, so it's normal to get that much criticism. Some are true, some unfair, but that's how it is. I hope he gets more mature with time.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dmash

So all the sports announcers, coaches and other players who say his antics are ridiculous, aren’t true sports fans? Got it.

And I said it before, and will say it again. I think the way he’s acting is resulting in MORE fouls getting through and LESS players getting sent off.

Yes, they are all on the wrong side. That guy who stamped on him should have been sent off, just like Beckham was against Argentina, and that should be the focus, all the talk of Neymar is typical reality TV hyping crap that is everywhere else so anyone who brings it into the beautiful game as more important than the fouls and thugs is a fan of that more than football.

He scored one and set the other one up but all the talk is of his reaction to being stamped on. So pick a side, football or reality TV.

This is the equivalent of talking about watches as investments and flipping v the watches themselves.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by AK797

That guy who stamped on him should have been sent off, just like Beckham was against Argentina, and that should be the focus.

Agree. However, nobody seems to care about that.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by kauebm

In regards to Neymar, I'll offer this final comment on the subject: fans and journalists from a handful of opponent countries may well make fun and laugh of him for as long as it pleases them. Too bad nothing is said about the constant violence used to stop his skill. That is what shames the game above all else.

So long as he keeps crushing games like he did today, they can keep laughing while he lifts the trophie.

Indeed. As I said don't let the flippers win, football has to win.

[FTX I]

.

[tudorbaja27]

He is one of the most talented footballers alive and no doubt a great player. He does get fouled more often than others (logically, because he has much of the ball). Many players dive, but his antics are embarrassing. He makes Ronaldo look like a saint haa

[DARK_KNIGHT]

Originally Posted by 77T

I’d love the watch but last time I had to find anti-flopping pills to tolerate the worst offenders.

Has FIFA figured out how to end this silliness? An Orange Card would be a good one. 3 free kicks for its second appearance against a team per match.

If not, I may have to only watch the highlights.

You hit the nail on the head. The floundering around on purpose just irks me.

I'm a Middle Linebacker on an adult football team so that stuff turns me off.

So far it's been an interesting Cup.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yeah if I was Neymar I'd try to get as many people sent off as possible, they are ruining the game by trying to unlawfully stop great players from performing and all true sports fans should be on his side, not on the thugs side and victim blaming.

Neymar is a multi-millionaire footballer who gets fouled, which is part of the game and always has been. He is certainly not a victim. He is also a prima donna who thinks he’s bigger than his team - witness his “don’t touch me” to the ref in the Costa Rica game who had the temerity to touch the untouchable on the arm.

But putting that aside it’s perfectly possible to punish those who foul him (the player who stood on his ankle should’ve got a yellow) whilst also punishing Neymar for feigning injury, which is also an offence under the Laws of the game (unsportsmanlike conduct). In fact, the fouls against him do typically get punished with free-kicks against whereas I’ve never seen him punished for his theatrics, hence a lot of the flak he’s getting. Remember when Rivaldo copped a ban for clutching his face when the ball was kicked at his knee? Neymar should’ve had that long ago. His antics bring the game into disrepute. You can actually see the damage that kind of behaviour does in this thread, as there are people who are turned off ever getting into football because they rightly see grown men acting like epileptic 3 year olds and think, “nah, I’ll stick to a mans game thank you very much”.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Neymar is a multi-millionaire footballer who gets fouled, which is part of the game and always has been. He is certainly not a victim. He is also a prima donna who thinks he’s bigger than his team - witness his “don’t touch me” to the ref in the Costa Rica game who had the temerity to touch the untouchable on the arm.

But putting that aside it’s perfectly possible to punish those who foul him (the player who stood on his ankle should’ve got a yellow) whilst also punishing Neymar for feigning injury, which is also an offence under the Laws of the game (unsportsmanlike conduct). In fact, the fouls against him do typically get punished with free-kicks against whereas I’ve never seen him punished for his theatrics, hence a lot of the flak he’s getting. Remember when Rivaldo copped a ban for clutching his face when the ball was kicked at his knee? Neymar should’ve had that long ago. His antics bring the game into disrepute. You can actually see the damage that kind of behaviour does in this thread, as there are people who are turned off ever getting into football because they rightly see grown men acting like epileptic 3 year olds and think, “nah, I’ll stick to a mans game thank you very much”.

The problem is balance. Neymar's theatrics should be a minor point, the focus should be on the football and the great football plays, but in this day and age everyone is far more concerned with personalities and drama and trying to turn the game into another reality TV show and a popularity contest, as has clearly happened on this thread.

I don't mind Neymar getting a yellow card for theatrics, but then I want the talentless thug who tried to ruin my World Cup by stamping on him sent off and given a 5 match ban, and a lifetime ban if he does it again. These are the people that need to be driven out of the game, not given a free pass, while we rail on the victim.

Same thing with Suarez, forget his football just talk about how much you hate him. There's an ugly trend developing on this thread.

So from now on let's just stick to the football and leave the personality popularity stuff to the billion other hideous forums before this thread gets shut down.

[TheVTCGuy]

Here is an objective opinion from an American. I know (practically) nothing about soccer, what the rest of the world calls football, to be completely honest I don’t even know who this Mynamar guy is. But let me say this to the rest of the world. Do you want to know why soccer is not the popular sport in the US? It is because of those flopping-embarassing-three stooges tumbles and falls that many (not all) of the players make a fool of themselves with every game. What is our big time sport? Football. The one with the helmets and funny shaped ball. EVERY single play, men pound each other with full contact physical hits. What do they do after? They get up and get ready for the next play. Then we (try to) watch international soccer with these comical falls and rolling around the ground when another player farts close to them. It is downright comical and IMHO an embarrassment to the sport. They are exceptional athletes, and no doubt there are hard fouls where players hit the ground and possible injuries, but I have TRIED to watch these games. EVERY single one has at least one instance (usually several) of a player barely getting touched, rolling around the ground And screaming like it’s a battlefield wound. They do this for several minutes until the ref comes over and the stretcher crew comes out and it’s a miracle! The player is healed by angels and continues in the game. It’s comical, it’s sad, it’s disgraceful. I’ll watch American Football thank you. A man gets hit, knocked down, gets up, and back in the game. Go ahead, make fun of the US and our lack of talent in Soccer, or more accurately, synchronized rolling.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Here is an objective opinion from an American. I know (practically) nothing about soccer, what the rest of the world calls football, to be completely honest I don’t even know who this Mynamar guy is. But let me say this to the rest of the world. Do you want to know why soccer is not the popular sport in the US? It is because of those flopping-embarassing-three stooges tumbles and falls that many (not all) of the players make a fool of themselves with every game. What is our big time sport? Football. The one with the helmets and funny shaped ball. EVERY single play, men pound each other with full contact physical hits. What do they do after? They get up and get ready for the next play. Then we (try to) watch international soccer with these comical falls and rolling around the ground when another player farts close to them. It is downright comical and IMHO an embarrassment to the sport. They are exceptional athletes, and no doubt there are hard fouls where players hit the ground and possible injuries, but I have TRIED to watch these games. EVERY single one has at least one instance (usually several) of a player barely getting touched, rolling around the ground And screaming like it’s a battlefield wound. They do this for several minutes until the ref comes over and the stretcher crew comes out and it’s a miracle! The player is healed by angels and continues in the game. It’s comical, it’s sad, it’s disgraceful. I’ll watch American Football thank you. A man gets hit, knocked down, gets up, and back in the game. Go ahead, make fun of the US and our lack of talent in Soccer, or more accurately, synchronized rolling.

No one is making fun of the USA in soccer. They get broad international support when they qualify for the World Cup.

Have you tried watching rugby? It's a bit like American football but without all the padding and helmets. Also played worldwide.

[TheVTCGuy]

I enjoy watching rugby very much, now THAT is a tough game. I also enjoy Aussie Rules football. I played a contact sport in college (Lacrosse) but we wore helmets. Those Rugby and ARF guys are tough buggers in my book!

[Old Expat Beast]

Hats off to you for following ARF

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

No one is making fun of the USA in soccer. They get broad international support when they qualify for the World Cup.

Have you tried watching rugby? It's a bit like American football but without all the padding and helmets. Also played worldwide.

Yes, Rugby is the real deal. They look at American Footballers with all their pampered padding like American footballers do soccer players.

And football was tough and rugged in the seventies and eighties but the Americans were not interested then, so nothing to do with the recent phenomenon of diving. It's just a cultural difference.

[TeddyS]

Football is a Gentleman’s game played by thugs and rugby is thugs game played by Gentlemen.


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[DARK_KNIGHT]

American here. I'm a soccer neophyte (technical aspects); i know you have to kick the ball into the net.

Let's go England. Although- it seems that every team i have cheered for during this tournament has lost.

It's incredible the amount of money that flows thru soccer; it makes FIFA into practically it's own World Government.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by AK797

The problem is balance. Neymar's theatrics should be a minor point, the focus should be on the football and the great football plays, but in this day and age everyone is far more concerned with personalities and drama and trying to turn the game into another reality TV show and a popularity contest, as has clearly happened on this thread.

I don't mind Neymar getting a yellow card for theatrics, but then I want the talentless thug who tried to ruin my World Cup by stamping on him sent off and given a 5 match ban, and a lifetime ban if he does it again. These are the people that need to be driven out of the game, not given a free pass, while we rail on the victim.

Same thing with Suarez, forget his football just talk about how much you hate him. There's an ugly trend developing on this thread.

So from now on let's just stick to the football and leave the personality popularity stuff to the billion other hideous forums before this thread gets shut down.

I disagree. The game is and always will be of primary importance but it has always been in part about personality at the top level. Before my time, George Best was the talk of the tabloids for the entirety of his career as well as much of his life after. Garrincha’s extra curricular activities are the stuff of legend and even the subject of a book by Ruy Castro, imaginatively titled “Garrincha” that I highly recommend. George Weah has become rather important in Liberia in large part as a result of his career. This is all obviously a long way away from the theatricality discussed above but it’s illustrative of the fact that people really do care about the personalities.

You may only be interested in the game and nothing else, which is fair enough. For others, the characters enliven the game. Especially as, quite frankly, football thrives on adversity and always has done. Part of the enjoyment of the game for many is finding aspects of the opposition and rival teams to dislike in order to perpetuate the rivalry. Hence for example Gary Neville winds up Liverpool fans by giving it the big “come on” in front of the Kop and the Scousers subsequently dislike him for eternity, even though he actually seems like a good bloke. I’d say this was an example of a bit of “manufactured hate” that’s all part of the fun. Social media loony’s who take things too seriously aside, most of what Neymar is getting is in a similar spirit.

I’ll leave it there

[DARK_KNIGHT]

Originally Posted by dmash

You’ve seriously got to just go to google and type in ‘Neymar fake’ or ‘Neymar injury’. All these guys claiming he doesn’t make Brazil football look bad are smoking something good. The only way you could say that is if Twitter and google are blocked in their respective countries, because he’s the laughing stock of the Internet right now. There’s countless websites, reporters, sports gurus, etc all saying the same thing. He’s a literal embarrassment to the game.


and if that guy would have done some real digging, he would of came up with something out of that crime ridden home you call New Jersey! Haha, I see you changed your location after we kept getting so confused.

Tech question here. Is the theatrics taught or encouraged at the higher levels of soccer ? I asked because I've been to some pro games in Costa Rica and Panama. I've also been to some Youth League games too. I didn't notice the diving at the Youth levels but it is rampant at the adult to Pro levels, so it's not just the Brazilian star doing it. His gets more attention because of his fame (yeah it makes me mad too, since I'm a Linebacker in American Tackle Football in an adult league and hitting and getting smashed is part of it).

Could this be a taught and encouraged behavior in the Semi- Pro to Pro levels of soccer?

Is it a defensive mechanism to avoid injuries? Or is it used by players that are scared ?

[Zakalwe]

Oh, almost forgot...

Come on England!

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

Tech question here. Is the theatrics taught or encouraged at the high school levels of soccer ? I asked because I've been to some pro games in Costa Rica and Panama. I've also been to some Youth League games too. I didn't notice the diving at the Youth levels but it is rampant at the adult to Pro levels, so it's not just the Brazilian star doing it. His gets more attention because of his fame (yeah it makes me mad too, since I'm a Linebacker in American Tackle Football in an adult league and hitting and getting smashed is part of it(.

Could this behavior be a taught and encouraged behavior in the Pro levels of soccer?

Is it a defensive mechanism to avoid injuries? Or is it used by players that are scared ?

Diving is absolutely taught at the professional level.

I made this point upthread, but “exaggerating contact” is a legitimate tactic, partly borne of the fact that referees are reluctant to give free-kicks to players who don’t go down - the thinking presumably being that the if the contact wasn’t significant enough to bring the player down then it wasn’t significant enough to be a foul. So players at that level are told to go down if they feel contact.

The next level is where players “look for contact” which I think is less legitimate and verges on cheating, though others might consider it good play. This is where players, usually in the opposition penalty area (because of the possibility of winning a penalty) will manoeuvre their legs in such a way as to deliberately run into the opponents legs so they can fall over and claim a foul. This often works and is also definitely taught.

The whole rolling around/face clutching/feigning injury stuff is an attempt to get opposition players punished/carded. That may or may not be taught but isn’t practiced by the majority of players.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yes, Rugby is the real deal. They look at American Footballers with all their pampered padding like American footballers do soccer players.

And football was tough and rugged in the seventies and eighties but the Americans were not interested then, so nothing to do with the recent phenomenon of diving. It's just a cultural difference.

The lack of scoring is an issue. There's too much faffing about and not enough goals. Run over here, run over there, back and forth, up and back, circle around... it all looks the same except for the 14 seconds of excitement that went with the one goal scored. Yay! 1-0. Yawn. The soccer penalty kick phase after extra time is exciting. But then they've removed all the boring running around bit at that point.

If basketball games ended with scores like 1-0 nobody would watch them either. It's the scoring that drives the excitement.

[77T]

For anyone not excited by, nor understanding the nuances of the play on the pitch, study Belgium’s final goal in stoppage time yesterday.

Just watch it from Japan’s failed goal attempt when Belgium’s keeper rolled the ball out. Pay attention to where the players positioned themselves during the ensuing 10-15 seconds it took to win the match. A thing of beauty...




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[DARK_KNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Diving is absolutely taught at the professional level.

I made this point upthread, but “exaggerating contact” is a legitimate tactic, partly borne of the fact that referees are reluctant to give free-kicks to players who don’t go down - the thinking presumably being that the if the contact wasn’t significant enough to bring the player down then it wasn’t significant enough to be a foul. So players at that level are told to go down if they feel contact.

The next level is where players “look for contact” which I think is less legitimate and verges on cheating, though others might consider it good play. This is where players, usually in the opposition penalty area (because of the possibility of winning a penalty) will manoeuvre their legs in such a way as to deliberately run into the opponents legs so they can fall over and claim a foul. This often works and is also definitely taught.

The whole rolling around/face clutching/feigning injury stuff is an attempt to get opposition players punished/carded. That may or may not be taught but isn’t practiced by the majority of players.

1. Thank you for the reply. I am going to search for the material you posted.

2. Since it is a conduct that is taught and encouraged by the Soccer Coaching Staff, I am going to have to rewire my brain into accepting that this is part of the strategy of playing soccer. There is no way to argue against what your Coaches teach you, because if you do, you will get benched or even cut. I suppose soccer players get benched and cut too, right? It sucks.

It will take me awhile, but now that I´m sure that it´s part of the accepted strategy of Soccer...........I´ll have to chew on that, the swallowing is gonna be the hard part.

[Heu]

Originally Posted by FTX I

I hope he gets more mature with time.

me too

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

1. Thank you for the reply. I am going to search for the material you posted.

2. Since it is a conduct that is taught and encouraged by the Soccer Coaching Staff, I am going to have to rewire my brain into accepting that this is part of the strategy of playing soccer. There is no way to argue against what your Coaches teach you, because if you do, you will get benched or even cut. I suppose soccer players get benched and cut too, right? It sucks.

It will take me awhile, but now that I´m sure that it´s part of the accepted strategy of Soccer...........I´ll have to chew on that, the swallowing is gonna be the hard part.

Think of it like a team full of kickers. In American football, on 4th and 4 the punter will fake an egregious injury trying to draw a flag that gets the 1st down. Soccer players use this same strategy all over the field. We only tolerate it with kickers in American football, but they've raised it to high science in soccer and allowed it to permeate the entire game.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by AK797

The problem is balance. Neymar's theatrics should be a minor point, the focus should be on the football and the great football plays, but in this day and age everyone is far more concerned with personalities and drama and trying to turn the game into another reality TV show and a popularity contest, as has clearly happened on this thread.

I don't mind Neymar getting a yellow card for theatrics, but then I want the talentless thug who tried to ruin my World Cup by stamping on him sent off and given a 5 match ban, and a lifetime ban if he does it again. These are the people that need to be driven out of the game, not given a free pass, while we rail on the victim.

Same thing with Suarez, forget his football just talk about how much you hate him. There's an ugly trend developing on this thread.

So from now on let's just stick to the football and leave the personality popularity stuff to the billion other hideous forums before this thread gets shut down.

We can agree to disagree, but you're comparing something that's not in any way fair. We're talking about what Neymar does IN the game, not outside of the game. You continuously have mentioned about this whole 'reality tv' thing, but it doesn't make any sense. because we point out stupidity that happens during the game, that does not make us fans of 'reality tv' and 'not true fans of the game'. Your exact same argument could be said against NEYMAR saying that he is a drama queen and a fan of reality TV trying to create such a scene. Your point sticks if we're writing threads about his personal life, but we have been solely focused on what transpires inside 90'.

Also, I'm quite certain that every single person who has said something bad about Neymar's antics has mentioned that they can absolutely appreciate his talent. That is acknowledging he's a good player and talking about skills. You're honestly making an argument that we should 'only focus on what a player does good on the pitch, but ignore if he does anything bad'. Are you also a proponent of effort medals and no criticizing by youth athletic coaches?

Not a single top tier athlete would ever say 'I got to where I am because nobody called out my stupidity/mistakes'. The entire internet is essentially doing this right now, trying to convey to Neymar (albeit through memes/gifs/mocking) that the drama is not amusing anymore, it's annoying. Stop flopping about like a fish out of water over small fouls, you're making football look ridiculous. Ronaldo got the same treatment for years, and honestly, some of Neymar's stunts are even worse. Ronaldo has gotten WAY better though, and guess what, people acknowledge that and can appreciate it.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

1. Thank you for the reply. I am going to search for the material you posted.

2. Since it is a conduct that is taught and encouraged by the Soccer Coaching Staff, I am going to have to rewire my brain into accepting that this is part of the strategy of playing soccer. There is no way to argue against what your Coaches teach you, because if you do, you will get benched or even cut. I suppose soccer players get benched and cut too, right? It sucks.

It will take me awhile, but now that I´m sure that it´s part of the accepted strategy of Soccer...........I´ll have to chew on that, the swallowing is gonna be the hard part.

Pushing the limit of the rules into cheating whilst not getting caught is a theme that recurs in all team sports I follow. It’s just that it may be more obvious in football than many others. Rugby, mentioned above is held up and compared positively against football by people who talk about sportsmanship, but having played a decent amount I can tell you it is a game where cheating and not getting caught is taught to players as kids.

Another analogy in an individual sport is boxing. If you follow it you’ll be familiar with the great Bernard Hopkins. A fantastic fighter who won titles until he was 50. He did so partly because he was a genetic freak who lived like a monk. But also because he cheated. He was the dirtiest boxer of the last 30 years. Head butting, rabbit punches, pushing, grabbing - none are in the Queensberry rules but he got away with it all multiple times in most of his fights in the latter part of his career. If you cheat and get away with it, you’re good at the game. At the highest level, it’s winning that counts, not taking part.

[tudorbaja27]

Let's go Colombiaaaaaaaaaaa!