Concerned: Am I being scammed by a seller on TRF?

[jbk45]

Here’s the situation:

I saw a Daytona posted for sale here last week by a TRF member with an established history and post count. I contacted the seller and agreed to a price - I asked him for references - he provided 4, 3 of them responded to me with positive reviews of their dealings with him. I cross referenced these with his previous for sale threads - all recent.

I wired the funds in Thursday and on Friday when the watch was supposed to ship, he contacts me saying he got into a car accident on his way to ship the watch - i am immediatey skeptical but give him the benefit of the doubt. He emails me the following morning telling me his wife had shipped it and provides the courier service info and tracking number. What’s weird to me is that he used a company called Light Pace Courier Services - I’ve never heard of them before. We agreed to overnight shipping and I assumed he’d use UPS/USPS/FedEx - but i know many people use courier services so I didn’t think this was a major issue other than the fact my watch was now scheduled to arrive on in two days instead of overnight. the website is lightpacecourier.com and looks legitimate. But as I’ve been tracking the watch, notice it hasn’t left the shipping location (Illinois) yet - again, not a major flag because I know these systems take time to update. As of yesterday night, the tracking info says my package is in West Virginia but if it’s slated for a Monday delivery in NY on 10/8, I’d expect it to have moved. I check the tracking info this morning and see it’s still in West Virginia with the arrival date changed to 10/9 with no explanation.

I use the contact info provided on the website to inquire and received no response to me email. When i called the phone number provided during the business hours listed, no answer and a generic voicemail saying i had reached my “friends” voicemail and to leave a message - no official business voicemail box or anything. Now I am concerned.

I ask the seller for an update and he responds saying he’d look into it and reply ASAP. 15 hours later (next day) still no response from seller so I text him and express my frustration with his lack of responsiveness and he simply responds asking if I want a refund without addressing any of my concerns or questions.

This exchange happened 3 hours ago and no response.

I am fairly concerned that I may have been scammed. Although i have our email correspondence, texts, and bank wire info - i know none of those are safeguards for me and I’m feeling very frustrated and helpless. I engaged in this transaction based off his history and the references provided but am very frustrated that I so willingly wired the seller such a large sum of money 5 days ago and have been sitting frustrated and concerned that I’ve been ripped off the last couple of days.

Any insight from this community on what my options are and how best to proceed? It’s been 4 days since the wire cleared and even tho he provided me with contact and banking info, it may all be fraudulent if he’s in fact scamming me.

The other part of this may simply be he’s been terrible at communicating and the watch will be delivered tomorrow and this is all water under the bridge.

What do you all think? i am reluctant to disclose the sellers name until I am certain of the situation but this was a large sum of money for a 116500 Daytona. Super frustrated and appreciate any advice and insight before contacting the bank and local authorities. I’ve had numerous positive selling and buying experiences this year on TRF and every seller/buyer has been outstanding so this is disappointing. What’s my recourse here?

[Lordofrolex]

Who is the seller?

Can you share names? Maybe one one on here as a relationship with them and can help you through this.

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by Lordofrolex

Who is the seller?

Can you share names? Maybe one one on here as a relationship with them and can help you through this.

Sellers name is “Keller” and he hasn’t logged in since 10/4. If anyone knows him and can provide some support, that would be awesome. But I’m not optimistic and he said made no attempt whatsoever to provide me with peace of mind by following up proactively and reassuring me of what’s going on.

If any of the users who purchased from him the last few months can chime in, even better.

[airpeace]

how much did you wire him? every step in this process sounds fishy

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by airpeace

how much did you wire him? every step in this process sounds fishy

Around market price for a 116500LN.

[ccaballero]

Get your money back and pay the premium with one of the top people on TRF for peace of mind

[NJRolexFan]

I would take him up on his offer of a refund.. However, today is Columbus Day and there's a possibility that the No frills courier company does not deliver on holidays. I am sure their tracking system is also not up to par with that of USPS/FedEx/UPS or DHL.

[Auto16610]

What does "established history" mean? Is he an established seller on TRF? And "post count" may not mean much. I sure hope the "references" are legit. I would try to pull the funds back. Sounds fishy. I just saw 124 as his post count. Yikes.
David SW has one for a bit more, but very legit.

[V25V]

This one?: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=631727

He has listed and sold on here before it seems and keep in mind, it was a holiday weekend. His listings aren't great and the contact info he has there seems a bit suspect to me, lowest price I have seen on a mint 116500 as well. All flags which would have me looking other places.

Were the references he provided ones which you could speak to or email? I would never trust a seller who provided me with references of those I had to email versus call and speak with. Even then, would prefer someone who has bought and/or sold with a member on here. Whenever I sell on here, I treat people as I would like to be treated if I were the one sending the money. Communication is key.

[T.Mas]

I think you should at least wait for the delivery date to pass before you get worried. .

[superstarmar]

I recently sold a watch to a buyer with 2nd day delivery via usps.
They took 3 days to deliver... Although I did communicate with
buyer... If the watch shipped out on Saturday and today is a
an official government holiday in the US I'd wait at least until
tomorrow before I start panicking.. But precautionary measures should always be taken.
I hope the situation works in you receiving the watch...

[AK797]

I'd give him a bit more time.

[chad362wiley]

That listing looks very scammy. I would contact your bank/get a refund. It has the same format as other scam posts. tread carefully

[PanosI]

Hope that everything turn out good but I also found these 2 threads

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

[jbk45]

I’m inclined to wait and may be jumping the gun but my gut is telling me something is off and it’s really giving me anxiety. I’ve been very communicative with the seller but he’s simply not responsive or demonstrating any sense of urgency and understanding when he does. I have already requested the refund and he hasn’t responded in over 3 hours. I’ve contacted my bank to get the process started - we’ll see if anything comes tomorrow.

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by PanosI

Hope that everything turn out good but I also found these 2 threads

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

This is not good. I’ve started the process with my bank...here we go.

[ccaballero]

I’d look at the threads referenced by Panos. Not good.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by PanosI

Hope that everything turn out good but I also found these 2 threads

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

Ooof.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by jbk45

This is not good. I’ve started the process with my bank...here we go.

Technically, you have grounds, if for no other reason than he violated the agreement by not providing overnight shipping as agreed, and hasn't responded to you with any reassurance. However, since you do have tracking on the shipment, and a stated delivery date (the pushback for which could be explained by Columbus Day), you might consider waiting an extra day for the package to arrive and inspecting the watch. Perhaps it will turn out alright, and will save you the trouble of a charge-back, and then a return of the watch. (You could then contact the seller and ask for a slight refund of the shipping he didn't pay for.) If the watch still doesn't arrive, or it arrives and is fake or otherwise problematic, then you can still take it up with the bank. A complete charge-back is full-on DEFCON 1, regardless of whether you do it today or tomorrow, so I don't see what you have to lose by waiting another day.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Edit: I just noticed you wired the funds, so you wouldn't be seeking a charge-back, per se. I'm not clear on what kind of buyer protection there is for wiring.

[usling15]

With what I've seen from TRF members assisting with what they've experienced. I would assume 100% this is a fraud.

[hoppes-no9]

Originally Posted by jbk45

a TRF member with an established history and post count.

We have very different definitions of "established history and post count."

124 posts since joining a year ago? Multiply either of those numbers by ten and I begin to have some trust.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by hoppes-no9

We have very different definitions of "established history and post count."

124 posts since joining a year ago? Multiply either of those numbers by ten and I begin to have some trust.

I think I'm up nearly 1000 posts just since coming back off a break a couple months ago. Then again, that means I only posted 2000 times during my first six-and-a-half years of being here.

(Note to self: I need more non-computer-based activities.)

[NJRolexFan]

Can the forum Mods help out at all?

[116710er]

Yeah I'm usually skeptical of (newish) people who clearly post their email in their ads. To me, that's a red flag...on a newer account, for obvious reasons .On a older account, I would suspect hacking/phishing. I always research the email address and if it comes back light, my position is that it's a scam. Sucks for new users but who sells a desirable high dollar Rolex (or other brands) with a new email account? Generally scammers IMO. Also, I would read the content of their posts. If they have just a bunch of one liners or are just parroting what others are saying, that's another red flag.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by 116710er

If they have just a bunch of one liners or are just parroting what others are saying, that's another red flag.

Largely a bunch of one-liners. But at this point, we're prosecuting a guy in absentia. Some of his behavior may not be ideal customer service, but that doesn't automatically make him a scammer. Moreover, I'm not seeing any solid evidence he has scammed anyone. All of this "doesn't look good" feedback is causing OP to freak out and file a claim one day before the delivery date, which doesn't make much sense, imo. I don't see what he has to lose by waiting another day for the package to arrive. For all we know, his bank will tell him to do that anyway.

Edit: new information renders this post moot. See below.

[Auto16610]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Largely a bunch of one-liners. But at this point, we're prosecuting a guy in absentia. Some of his behavior may not be ideal customer service, but that doesn't automatically make him a scammer. Moreover, I'm not seeing any solid evidence he has scammed anyone. All of this "doesn't look good" feedback is causing OP to freak out and file a claim one day before the delivery date, which doesn't make much sense, imo. I don't see what he has to lose by waiting another day for the package to arrive. For all we know, his bank will tell him to do that anyway.

Look at post #14 and you will see the guy is a scammer. So waiting one more day could be very costly.

[vlps]

jbk I believe I have been scammed as well, with the same seller for a rolex sub no date. he used the same swketchy courier service and the watch was supposed to arrive last week to no avail.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Largely a bunch of one-liners. But at this point, we're prosecuting a guy in absentia. Some of his behavior may not be ideal customer service, but that doesn't automatically make him a scammer. Moreover, I'm not seeing any solid evidence he has scammed anyone. All of this "doesn't look good" feedback is causing OP to freak out and file a claim one day before the delivery date, which doesn't make much sense, imo. I don't see what he has to lose by waiting another day for the package to arrive. For all we know, his bank will tell him to do that anyway.

Normally I would agree that we might be jumping the gun but in this case, all signs lead to a scam. When trying to recall a wire, every day counts. Worst case scenario, if the seller somehow is legit, the buyer just needs to resend the wire (assuming he is able to successfully recall it).

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by vlps

jbk I believe I have been scammed as well, with the same seller for a rolex sub no date. he used the same swketchy courier service and the watch was supposed to arrive last week to no avail.

This changes the picture. Are you saying you were provided with tracking and a delivery date, and that one week past said date, the watch is still MIA?

[vlps]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

This changes the picture. Are you saying you were provided with tracking and a delivery date, and that one week past said date, the watch is still MIA?

I was actually given a tracking number that showed it was being sent to me by the person named. and now after a couple of days that exact same tracking number updated to a different sender and a different person the watch was being delivered to in long island NY (I believe the OP). so it looks to be a fake courier site with one tracking number that he updates the sender name and receiver name each time.

will be contacting my bank tomorrow morning and hope to get this reversed. I wonder how the scammer opened different bank accounts under different names.