How does this one look?

[dotcomakazee]

This guy is a power seller on Ebay with great feedback. He has his own jewelry store. I'm not real worried but just wanted to see what you guys think.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tab%3DWatching

[TimeToGo]

Rick$amy is a legitimate seller on Ebay!

This is a classic watch. He is giving the option of "best buy."

Good luck!

[dotcomakazee]

Thanks! I thought so.

[mnidwd]

can you be tough?

[springer]

Ty, as a note to this Submariner 1680, the band is a Rolex replacement band and not original to the watch. Expect to pay $750 to $1000 for a correct 93150 band. The original clasp had a recessed notch on the side of the clasp. If you are going for original, this might help in your negotiation. (The poorly drawn arrow points to the notch in the clasp.)

[JimW]

Originally Posted by springer

Ty, as a note to this Submariner 1680, the band is a Rolex replacement band and not original to the watch. Expect to pay $750 to $1000 for a correct band. The original clasp had a recessed notch the side of the clasp. If you are going for original, this might help in your negotiation.

I agree Rick&Amy are great sellers. I have done business with them before. Also Great to note about the band John.
Maybe someone can drop a line to Rick & Amy about the band being a Rolex replacement.

This is what it is all about, helping without harsness. Merry Christmas everyone!

[springer]

Ty, here is your seller's response to the band question.

The bracelet is not a big issue on later models to us dealers versus thr earlier models with crimped bracelets. As long as its factory. Thanks

My opinion - he avoided the issue and acted as it was insignificant as usual. It is significant and since it is a collectors watch, originality does matter, not only in the watch but the price. The more original, the higher the price. He also states in the item description that the band is original. It is original Rolex but not to the watch. Based on the listing and response, in my opinion, he is being deceptive as well as the listing.

[JimW]

As some of you know I am not one to be judgemental towards people ( I have my own demons to look at in the mirror) but I have to admit with springer (John) on this one. If someone is looking to becoming a collector then they should know even a "Rolex replacement band" lowers the value of the vintage piece.
Therefore if they let people know it is a Rolex replacement "original" band and the buyer is not up on Rolex then they "might" think they got a great deal only to find out when they take it to the Rolex "hardcore" people they may feel betrayed or let down about buying a "Vintage Rolex" that isn't.
But also if they are going to get into collecting then possibly could be a self inflected wound by not researching it first.
It is a continuing agree/disagree cycle that may never end.

[springer]

Originally Posted by JimW

As some of you know I am not one to be judgemental towards people ( I have my own demons to look at in the mirror) but I have to admit with springer (John) on this one. If someone is looking to becoming a collector then they should know even a "Rolex replacement band" lowers the value of the vintage piece.
Therefore if they let people know it is a Rolex replacement "original" band and the buyer is not up on Rolex then they "might" think they got a great deal only to find out when they take it to the Rolex "hardcore" people they may feel betrayed or let down about buying a "Vintage Rolex" that isn't.
But also if they are going to get into collecting then possibly could be a self inflected wound by not researching it first.
It is a continuing agree/disagree cycle that may never end.

Jim, thanks for the support. Personally, I believe a level playing field is a good place to start when buying a vintage watch. As I've stated here many times in the past, there is nothing wrong with buying vintage watches with newer replacement parts. What is wrong is when they are misrepresented. This Sammy-guy selling this 1680 Submariner is out of touch if he thinks it means nothing to buyers on whether a major component of the watch is genuine or genuine Rolex replacement. Let's be up-front and have some integrity, especially when you know the difference. The only reason it is not listed correctly is because the replacement band should lower the value of the watch. Also, one can buy a complete 1680 for less than $6500. His prices are some of the highest on ebay and are continually being relisted, relisted and relisted.

[JimW]

YW John,
To be honest before I joined this forum I would of thought I was getting a great deal if I was shopping ebay for one. But how many people would know to research for forums like this and TimeZone before buying a watch for a collections.
In defense a bit for the seller most buyers/true Rolex lovers and people in the know would look past an auction like this because of the original Rolex replacement parts.

The bracelet is not a big issue on later models to us dealers versus thr earlier models with crimped bracelets. As long as its factory. Thanks

It is odd how people's opinions vary on the subject. In their eyes they may think they are correct. In the "hardcore collectors" eyes they might not be.

Not much way to get any sellers to say they have replacement original Rolex parts and the value of this purchase is for wearing and not collecting. Let's face it, most people are in it for the money, not the love of watches.
But then again there are sellers out there right now who are stating original Rolex replacement parts and if it comes back from Rolex stating reworked,serviced and parts replaced with geniune Rolex parts. Makes for a tough arguement.

Lesson I have learned here is if you got/bought or are thinking about buying a vintage watch you better be up to speed on what is vintage and what is "original Rolex replacement parts".
I will shut up now (LOL) but it is true "KNOW YOUR SELLER AS MUCH AS YOU KNOW YOUR WATCH"

[ArizonaHD]

I focus on identifying blatant fakes, thats the junk that needs to be kept off eBay, if it is genuine rolex replacement the serious collecters can discern and adjust their bid accordingly.

[springer]

Originally Posted by ArizonaHD

I focus on identifying blatant fakes, thats the junk that needs to be kept off eBay, if it is genuine rolex replacement the serious collecters can discern and adjust their bid accordingly.

Good point, but most collectors aren't serious collectors or "experts" on vintage watches. They own one or two Rolexes and all of a sudden one day they decide they want something vintage. That's how it started for me, and most people I've had contact with in the vintage market. When I first started collecting, I almost entirely relied on what the seller told me, as I knew little about what was correct and what wasn't. This can be a big mistake to the novice collector.

In this instance, I don't believe the member knew anything about the band not being original - as it is a replacement band, and the info about it was related here so he could adjust his price accordingly.

This is the watchout section, so I believe one should watchout for something purported to be original when it is not. Not all members reading this section have as much knowledge as some here, but collectively, there is plenty for all to assist them in making a purchase and determining what is genuine, fake, altered or a great buy.

[TimeToGo]

Springer,

Great eyes!!

[Andad]

IMO the seller clearly states that this Rolex has the 'original heavy 93150 oyster bracelet with 580 end pieces'. To me this means that this vintage Rolex came new from Rolex with this bracelet attached to it 100% - no question. If this is incorrect then the seller has clearly misrepresented this Rolex and it should be removed from sale until the description error has been corrected.

[tudorman8276]

Originally Posted by directioneng

IMO the seller clearly states that this Rolex has the 'original heavy 93150 oyster bracelet with 580 end pieces'. To me this means that this vintage Rolex came new from Rolex with this bracelet attached to it 100% - no question. If this is incorrect then the seller has clearly misrepresented this Rolex and it should be removed from sale until the description error has been corrected.

...reported yesterday.

...again, we have to wait for eBay to do their thing.

Stan.

[Parachrom]

I for one do not like the reply by the seller. "To us dealers its no big deal" and it may very well not be a big deal to a dealer, however it is a big deal to the buyer when you hold out the object to be complete original, when it is not. It would be a big deal to the dealer when the prices being offered reflect the "no big deal" replacement bracelet reduction discount.

Frankly with his attitude, he sure wouldnt get my business, as what other items dont we know of that also wont be a big deal

[springer]

Originally Posted by tudorman8276

...reported yesterday.

...again, we have to wait for eBay to do their thing.

Stan.

Here is the seller's last response that was forwarded to me by another member:

What the fuck do you care how I list my stuff. Take a hike asshole. Enjoy xmas instead of busting my balls. You're not my boss. I do fine alone & no one cares about a $400 bracelet on a barely vintage watch. Go back to your watch forums with your geek friends & leave alone pal. I mean it too.

Looks like rick$ammy has some issues!!!!!

[JimW]

I fear this one is going to open a can of worms BIG TIME! Us dealers: resellers or ads?
Rick&Amy are good people, I hope no one has pushed too big a button here JUST TRYING TO HELP!
With thier reputation as good sellers They must of gotten some rough (too many) questions about this watch. In turn they could of chosen their words a bit more carefully and aknowledged it was a replacement band and moved on.
Maybe we didn't help matters by coming down on them too hard? Shame is the watch forum world is getting a rep themselfs by going after everyone who alters a vintage when I thought watch out was basically for the sammers on the web.
Didn't help this cause with the "us dealers" comment and maybe they should of thought before answering. But they are good people for sure.
The purist in the watch world would look at the auction and say ooops, not for me it has replacement parts on it. Someone getting into vintage might buy it and learn a lesson from it.
I am sorry but I think we owe them somewhat of an apology and let them know we were not trying to hurt them, only trying to help.
Which I thought was this watch out forums thing to do.

Then again, I am probably wrong..............Wife just told me I am always wrong.

[springer]

Jim, I don't see where anybody went after anyone, but only pointing out a matter of fact concerning the band to a member here.

It looks like a nice watch, and the band issue aside, it's been written many, many times here that the issue is not having replacement, or non-original parts but how they are presented.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by springer

Jim, I don't see where anybody went after anyone, but only pointing out a matter of fact concerning the band to a member here.

It looks like a nice watch, and the band issue aside, it's been written many, many times here that the issue is not having replacement, or non-original parts but how they are presented.

Point taken. I wonder how now we can use the forum to help these sellers use the correct verbage/ presentation when selling them.

But then again.............I might not, I am not too fond of being cussed out.

[Beaumont Miller II]

I am new to this thread, but I have enjoyed following it nonetheless. I regret selling my 1680 and trading it in on a 16610. I decided that there was room in my heart for both of them, then replaced the 1680 for a red 1680. I looked at the 93150 band on both my Red Sub and my DRSD and neither of them have the notch. My hat is off to you Springer: I learned something on this thread. RandA's prices do seem at the top end of the range for some of their merchandise; however, this 1680 in this condition even with the 93150 replacement bracelet that as you correctly pointed out was misrepresented does seem like a fair price. I haven't seen 1680 prices in this condition for less than 6k in quite a while. I may have been looking in the wrong places. 93150 oyster bracelets typically go for between $750.00 - $1,000.00. I paid about that for a folded link period correct bracelet from Stan on Ebay for my vintage GMT. How much more would you expect to pay for the period correct bracelet. I hope everyone who reads this takes it in the spirit in which it is intended. I don't disagree with anything I have read on this thread. In addition to helping buyers, I think it also educates owners.

[sirjohnbrian]

Originally Posted by springer

Here is the seller's last response that was forwarded to me by another member:

What the fuck do you care how I list my stuff. Take a hike asshole. Enjoy xmas instead of busting my balls. You're not my boss. I do fine alone & no one cares about a $400 bracelet on a barely vintage watch. Go back to your watch forums with your geek friends & leave alone pal. I mean it too.

Looks like rick$ammy has some issues!!!!!

They may be respected sellers but a response like that turns me off as a consumer. Granted they may or may not have misrepresented their sale, everyone makes mistakes. But if this is how they respond to a legitimate question, how are they going to respond if I have a problem with them??

I'm not putting them on my favorite sellers list any time soon.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by sirjohnbrian

They may be respected sellers but a response like that turns me off as a consumer. Granted they may or may not have misrepresented their sale, everyone makes mistakes. But if this is how they respond to a legitimate question, how are they going to respond if I have a problem with them??

I'm not putting them on my favorite sellers list any time soon.

Got to admit it was not an appropiate response to a potential buyer.
I use foul language myself sometimes but I do stop and think who might hear or see it.

Then again I may need to grow some class myself.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by springer

Here is the seller's last response that was forwarded to me by another member:

What the f-ck do you care how I list my stuff. Take a hike a--hole. Enjoy xmas instead of busting my balls. You're not my boss. I do fine alone & no one cares about a $400 bracelet on a barely vintage watch. Go back to your watch forums with your geek friends & leave alone pal. I mean it too.

Looks like rick$ammy has some issues!!!!!

Sorry Jim.... these are not good people and as John said they have 'issues' - despite what their feedback says.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Sorry Jim.... these are not good people and as John said they have 'issues' - despite what their feedback says.

I can now somewhat agree. I had never seen that side of the seller. Hope not to ever again.


But to be honest ( no BS here at all) I have wasted a small fortune in my life twice but never once did I feel the need to talk down or act mean to someone over a deal.

But I have learned in life "the first admission of guilt is usually anger"