Advice needed - Unnamed Undated Warranty Card

[Swaye]

Hey all, wanted some collective wisdom from the folks here. So, I am interested in a Rolex from a very trusted dealer I have made purchases from before. Watch is a 2007 model and is originally from HK. I want to lead with "I have NO reservations about the watch or it's authenticity." This is a question about curiosity.

So, 2007 watch sold out of Hong Kong. The warranty card is properly AD stamped. The serial tag is present. Best news, it was serviced at RSC Dallas late last year. So, the watch, the warranty card (unnamed and undated), serial tag and RSC service paperwork numbers all match and it is a trusted seller. In short, the watch is legit. I have zero worries there.

My question is...is there any way to figure out when the watch was originally sold? And before you answer, I have spoken with the AD in HK twice. They were SUPER helpful. Sent them photos of the card and they called me back. In short, they told me yes, it is the correct AD stamp, and were even able to tell which one of their stores in HK the watch came from (based on the stamp), but after searching they said they do not have records going back that far.

I was thinking perhaps Rolex would know, but then thought International Warranty cards from that era did not have magnetic strips and were not swiped (I don't think) letting the mother ship know anything. So unless anyone has any ideas I suppose I am stuck. If the AD doesn't have records, and there was no strip to swipe, then I have no idea how to track it down. Anyone have any ideas?

I called an industry friend of mine and he had no ideas, but did say that HK is kind of wild wild west with Rolex, and particularly 10-15 years ago. He made a guess that the watch was bundled for a dealer to dealer (grey?) sale back then. Said it is very common to see HK watches unnamed and undated.

Anyway, this isn't an authenticity question, but my curiosity is peaked. Anyone have any experience with unnamed/undated cards from the era, HK specifically, or any other way to figure out when this is sold? I know I will never get the buyer, but dating the sale would be nice.

Thanks all!

[Swiss Mad!]

Pretty sure Rolex would know when it was manufactured/shipped and to which AD it was supplied to just from the serial number alone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1William]

Rolex will not tell you when it came into service and it seems you have run out your options on checking. I would move on and get the watch if I wanted it.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Pretty sure Rolex would know when it was manufactured/shipped and to which AD it was supplied to just from the serial number alone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would assume yes, but who would I even contact in Rolex to ask this of? I was more curious about when it was sold. I know the warranty has long since expired so this is more a matter of curiosity and general Rolex knowledge than anything. Just interesting to me that Rolexes are sometimes sold without a date on the card, and in the pre swipe era it appears there is no way to discover the original purchaser or date of sale if the AD doesn't have a record of it.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by 1William

Rolex will not tell you when it came into service and it seems you have run out your options on checking. I would move on and get the watch if I wanted it.

I think I likely will purchase it. I am not bothered by an unnamed undated card since there is so much provenance there and the AD even told me it is their stamp. I am satisfied the watch is genuine. My OCD nature just wanted to know when it was sold - I knew I would never know who bought it first.

Perhaps this is why Rolex went to swipe cards so there would be a record of transactions? As of now it appears on the older stuff there is no way to find out if the AD can't help you with point of sale records.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Swaye

I think I likely will purchase it. I am not bothered by an unnamed undated card since there is so much provenance there and the AD even told me it is their stamp. I am satisfied the watch is genuine. My OCD nature just wanted to know when it was sold - I knew I would never know who bought it first.

Perhaps this is why Rolex went to swipe cards so there would be a record of transactions? As of now it appears on the older stuff there is no way to find out if the AD can't help you with point of sale records.

Even with the swiped cards nowadays you'll never know who bought it. You can write any name you like on it

[Monte Cristo]

Originally Posted by joli160

Even with the swiped cards nowadays you'll never know who bought it. You can write any name you like on it

Certainly is that way today. Wonder if Rolex will look at changing this in an effort to curtail the “leakage”

[brandrea]

I’d be curious as to RSC servicing the watch without the dated card. I always thought the card had to be dated to be valid. Perhaps I’m wrong on that one.

[supernova]

I doubt Rolex cares about the name of the person who bought the watch.

But I'm quite sure when the watch is sold at the AD, it is entered into the system so Rolex knows when it was sold and when the warranty period starts.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I’d be curious as to RSC servicing the watch without the dated card. I always thought the card had to be dated to be valid. Perhaps I’m wrong on that one.

Well it wasn't serviced under warranty. I don't think Rolex even looks at cards for out of warranty service work? They just verify it is an actual Rolex and the serial number is good and then do the service. Or that is my understanding anyway.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by supernova

I doubt Rolex cares about the name of the person who bought the watch.

But I'm quite sure when the watch is sold at the AD, it is entered into the system so Rolex knows when it was sold and when the warranty period starts.

That is my assumption as well. The AD says they have no records going back to 2007, but surely Rolex knows when the warranty period started? But how would I ever get someone at Rolex to tell me that, especially for a watch that is a decade removed from warranty coverage? Basically, who in Rolex is going to take the time to satisfy my curiosity?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Swaye

Well it wasn't serviced under warranty. I don't think Rolex even looks at cards for out of warranty service work? They just verify it is an actual Rolex and the serial number is good and then do the service. Or that is my understanding anyway.

Interesting ... I'd like to learn more about this.

Whenever I've brought my pieces to RSC (Toronto) they have always required me to present the warranty card before service, (granted I only own newer 6 digit references these days).

The last visit I made they emailed to say:

"Please visit us at any time for sizing. Please bring a copy of the sales warranty issued at the time of receipt for our records."

They swiped the card and entered me into their system, so I assumed this was standard practice.

I'm genuinely curious what happens when there is no card to present. They must manually enter the serial number into their data base to create a customer account?

[Sprta]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interesting ... I'd like to learn more about this.

Whenever I've brought my pieces to RSC (Toronto) they have always required me to present the warranty card before service, (granted I only own newer 6 digit references these days).

The last visit I made they emailed to say:

"Please visit us at any time for sizing. Please bring a copy of the sales warranty issued at the time of receipt for our records."

They swiped the card and entered me into their system, so I assumed this was standard practice.

I'm genuinely curious what happens when there is no card to present. They must manually enter the serial number into their data base to create a customer account?

They do not need the warranty card to service the watch. They provide service for watches that were produced prior to warranty cards being issues.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interesting ... I'd like to learn more about this.

Whenever I've brought my pieces to RSC (Toronto) they have always required me to present the warranty card before service, (granted I only own newer 6 digit references these days).

The last visit I made they emailed to say:

"Please visit us at any time for sizing. Please bring a copy of the sales warranty issued at the time of receipt for our records."

They swiped the card and entered me into their system, so I assumed this was standard practice.

I'm genuinely curious what happens when there is no card to present. They must manually enter the serial number into their data base to create a customer account?

That's a good question. I have no idea. But yes, clearly hundreds of thousands of Rolexes have been serviced with no warranty card whatsoever over the years. So some process exists.

This particular watch was serviced by RSC Dallas I am told, but only the new warranty card is with the dealer. Whoever the last owner was had it serviced in late October last year, then flipped it to the dealer. So I would have the new warranty card.

Again, the original warranty card is effectively useless now except as provenance for the history of the watch. I'm glad it has it, and in this case glad it also has the serial tag (which I usually could care less about but this is sort of special case with the undated warranty card).

An unnamed warranty card is not at all uncommon, but an undated one is more uncommon. There are lots of threads on TRF in the past about them though, so they do happen. My dealer friend says he has many of them over the years.

Usually the answer to undated is call the AD and get them to tell you. Well, that's great when the AD has a record of it. I am kind of surprised the AD had no records to be honest. They were super helpful and polite, but I found myself wondering if they "didn't have the records" because they sold a big batch of watches to a grey dealer in HK in 2007 and didn't want to tell me that. The funny thing is, I wouldn't care that you sold them to a grey dealer...I just wanted the date of sale, I don't care to whom it was sold. Hell I can write my name in there if I want. Doesn't matter a bit anymore.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Sprta

They do not need the warranty card to service the watch. They provide service for watches that were produced prior to warranty cards being issues.

I understand that.

What I'm curious about is if they create a "customer account" when a watch is brought in without a warranty card.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Swaye

That's a good question. I have no idea. But yes, clearly hundreds of thousands of Rolexes have been serviced with no warranty card whatsoever over the years. So some process exists.

This particular watch was serviced by RSC Dallas I am told, but only the new warranty card is with the dealer. Whoever the last owner was had it serviced in late October last year, then flipped it to the dealer. So I would have the new warranty card.

Again, the original warranty card is effectively useless now except as provenance for the history of the watch. I'm glad it has it, and in this case glad it also has the serial tag (which I usually could care less about but this is sort of special case with the undated warranty card).

An unnamed warranty card is not at all uncommon, but an undated one is more uncommon. There are lots of threads on TRF in the past about them though, so they do happen. My dealer friend says he has many of them over the years.

Usually the answer to undated is call the AD and get them to tell you. Well, that's great when the AD has a record of it. I am kind of surprised the AD had no records to be honest. They were super helpful and polite, but I found myself wondering if they "didn't have the records" because they sold a big batch of watches to a grey dealer in HK in 2007 and didn't want to tell me that. The funny thing is, I wouldn't care that you sold them to a grey dealer...I just wanted the date of sale, I don't care to whom it was sold. Hell I can write my name in there if I want. Doesn't matter a bit anymore.

Understood I'm like you and would be a bit curious as well.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Understood I'm like you and would be a bit curious as well.

Yeah, that's basically all this is at this point in an exercise in curiosity in general. I have no doubts as to the authenticity of the watch. I mean sure, all of the provenance could have been faked, but this isn't a Zenith Daytona or a Flat 4 Kermit, it's a Date Sub. No reason to go to so much trouble to generate all that fake paperwork and tags and cards for a run of the mill Sub.

More than anything i am interested in the history of the watch, and I feel like when there is no date there, and it is from HK, you are missing a huge piece of the watches history. Sure, it probably went to a grey dealer, but my curiosity is peaked. And this watch is only 12-13 years old (early Z serial), I can't imagine trying to track all this down on a really old watch. Forget it.

Just got an e-mail from my dealer friend (not the dealer who is selling the watch) and he said "buy the watch and put your own name and date on it because the warranty is done and it is obviously impossible to find out."

He might have a point. My curiosity might not get resolved on this one.

[t65tampa]

Rolex won't tell you anything else. Sounds like a legit watch from a good seller. The recent service documentation is helpful. I would give up on wanting to know any more history of it. Wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

[77T]

I presume you have an M s/n engraved on the watch rehaut?

Otherwise how did you establish that it was a 2007 model?

Rolex knows when they made it, which distributor it was assigned to, and when it was presented to RSC for subsequent service.

The AD knows which store received it from the stamp on the warranty card. That is a bit unusual for large chains but very possible.

Outside of that, because the AD has no records, you won’t know anything about the actual sale date. Doubtful the card was swiped or entered anywhere - this is a clue that it was gray marketed methinks.

But if I said sale date was 4JULY2007, it would just as true as another person saying 1JAN2008...just saying it won’t really be true or false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by 77T

I presume you have an M s/n engraved on the watch rehaut?

Otherwise how did you establish that it was a 2007 model?

Rolex knows when they made it, which distributor it was assigned to, and when it was presented to RSC for subsequent service.

The AD knows which store received it from the stamp on the warranty card. That is a bit unusual for large chains but very possible.

Outside of that, because the AD has no records, you won’t know anything about the actual sale date. Doubtful the card was swiped or entered anywhere - this is a clue that it was gray marketed methinks.

But if I said sale date was 4JULY2007, it would just as true as another person saying 1JAN2008...just saying it won’t really be true or false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hey there. It's a Z serial, so it might have been 2006. Or it might have sat for awhile and they sent it to a grey in 2008. I don't know, and I will likely never know it appears.

Based on this thread so far, it appears likely that the only for sure info available would be a build or ship date from Rolex, which they are not going to share with me anyway. When it got to the AD in HK it was their problem, and since they either do not have any records, or do not wish to share the info with me, it will probably always be a mystery.

Appreciate the post.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by t65tampa

Rolex won't tell you anything else. Sounds like a legit watch from a good seller. The recent service documentation is helpful. I would give up on wanting to know any more history of it. Wouldn't make much of a difference to me.

Yeah, I think that is where we are at. I can't imagine anyone in Switzerland taking my call to assist my curiosity. Heh.