The Magic of 904L Steel

[ALF61]

We all love Rolex SS because they shine so bright. Some of these watches put their WG counterparts to shame when considering price. I suspect there is much more to 904L steel than just the shining process. It is a question for the well versed or techies or metallurgists, but can someone write about this type of SS ?

[Cold904L]

904L is an austenitic stainless steel. In comparison to 316L, its molybdenum addition gives it superior resistance to localized attack (pitting and crevice corrosion) by chlorides and greater resistance reducing acids and in particular its copper addition gives it useful corrosion resistance to all concentrations of sulphuric acid. Its high alloying content also gives it greater resistance to chloride stress corrosion cracking, but it is still susceptible. Its low carbon content makes it resistant to sensitization by welding and which prevents intergranular corrosion.

It has applications in piping systems, pollution control equipment, heat exchangers, and bleaching systems.

In 1985 Rolex became the first wristwatch manufacturer to utilize 904L grade steel in its watches. Rolex chose to use this variety of steel because it takes a higher polish than other grades of steel and provides greater corrosion resistance, though it does not machine as well and requires specialized equipment to be properly modified into the required shape.

— courtesy of Wikipedia

Personally, I’m not a fan (username humor)

[arcadelt]

Little known fact: the Girard-Perregaux Laureato Chronograph is made out of 904L steel too. I wonder how many other brands use it?

[mmalek1]

Ball watch company has a model or two using 904 as well.

[djyolky]

I personally feel the oystersteel bracelet is one of the most beautiful aspects of Rolex period. To me it is not blingy and has this beautiful dull shine, almost like titanium but not as dark.

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[Etschell]

It does have quite the sheen

[Fallranger]

It looks like white gold to me. Mine is only a few months old but I hope it holds its shine like this over the years.


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[djyolky]

Originally Posted by Fallranger

It looks like white gold to me. Mine is only a few months old but I hope it holds its shine like this over the years.


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Exactly, it's like a muted stainless steel with patina like qualities, out from the gate. I would guess the high nickel concentration has a lot to do with that.

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[RJK]

Practically everything you wanted to know about 904 courtesy of Tools:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=113138

Lots of good info in the TRF Reference library and WatchTech. I highly recommend checking them out.

[Seibei]

904L is fine, but I don't really see that it shines any brighter than stainless steel from other watch makers. I think the point of 904L is corrosion resistance.

[TswaneNguni]

One of the reasons ss Rolex is so popular ...904L.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by ALF61

We all love Rolex SS because they shine so bright. Some of these watches put their WG counterparts to shame when considering price. I suspect there is much more to 904L steel than just the shining process. It is a question for the well versed or techies or metallurgists, but can someone write about this type of SS ?

There are many myths on the net about the special 904l steel now called oystersteel first they do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billots,and there is nothing magical about 904L or oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux ,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Seibei

904L is fine, but I don't really see that it shines any brighter than stainless steel from other watch makers. I think the point of 904L is corrosion resistance.

That's it in a nutshell.
It just happens to be able to be polished up to Rolex's satisfaction and that of the general buying public.

Speaking of polishing.
I would back GS Zaratsu polishing on any visible part of their watches(which are 316 i believe) when put up against a Rolex.
Don't get me wrong, I love the result Rolex gets regardless of what material their watches may be made of.
But to really appreciate polished finishes, one must take the opportunity to have an objective close examination of a GS next to any Rolex to understand what's achievable

[Moggo]

This thread must be banned immediately!

It’s about the technical aspect of Rolex, this can’t be allowed!

Does it increase in value more than 316L?


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[kog]

One of the main properties of ss is its toughness. Just try grinding/drilling it, but as has been said 904L has some very good resistance to chemicals.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Moggo

This thread must be banned immediately!

It’s about the technical aspect of Rolex, this can’t be allowed!

Does it increase in value more than 316L?


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Why yes.
Of course it does

At least it does for me as I prefer and appreciate the superior material specs.
That's why it cost more up front and let's not forget to factor in the economy of scale.
It stands to reason really.
904 L is obviously going to be more expensive than 316 L and in turn both materials will be more expensive than 304 SS. I bought a length of 75 × 10 304 flat bar myself for a little job just the other day. It's perfectly fit for the intended purpose and rather cost effective compared to any of the available options. Pity it will never ever see the light of day after I have finished with it. That is unless someone launches a strategic Nuclear strike on my city.
In that case I'm not sure anybody is going to care about these things one way or another

[joli160]

Originally Posted by padi56

marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

Spot on

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by kog

One of the main properties of ss is its toughness. Just try grinding/drilling it, but as has been said 904L has some very good resistance to chemicals.

Done plenty of that grinding, drilling, machining, sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding and polishing of the stuff in my time. Other grades of SS as well not mentioned on these forums.

The last time I layed my hands on a bit was to adapt a strip of 316 L to a specific application in a bathroom.
Spent a couple of days on it and it came up a real treat

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by joli160

Spot on

Nothing wrong with being brainwashed.
As long as you know

[kog]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Done plenty of that grinding, drilling, machining, sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding and polishing of the stuff in my time. Other grades of SS as well not mentioned on these forums.

The last time I layed my hands on a bit was to adapt a strip of 316 L to a specific application in a bathroom.
Spent a couple of days on it and it came up a real treat

sanding and sanding and sanding and sanding and polishing... hahaha

[Raku]

Originally Posted by padi56

There are many myths on the net about the special 904l steel now called oystersteel first they do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billots,and there is nothing magical about 904L or oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux ,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

Thank you Peter for the informative post, always a pleasure to read!

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by padi56

There are many myths on the net about the special 904l steel now called oystersteel first they do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billots,and there is nothing magical about 904L or oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux ,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

Thank you Peter, always enjoy reading about watches when you post.

I agree but few people realize that Rolex is in the luxury business not the watch business.

https://www.luxurysociety.com/en/art...elling-dreams/

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by padi56

There are many myths on the net about the special 904l steel now called oystersteel first they do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billots,and there is nothing magical about 904L or oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux ,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

[kog]

The reason 904L is a better material and not just marketing is for Rolex is because dive watches or any watch that is water proof will invariably end up in the ocean at some time but also sweat contains salt and with all that salt (sodium chloride) or even a swimming pool with chloride and other cleaning chemicals corrode watches. Salt is a very corrosive substance so dive watches that are in the sea much more than normal watches really benefit from 904L.

Oh and 316L is very prone to pitting because its more brittle than 904L.

[hbk75]

My tudor finishing is as good as rolex. Dun think the steel.difference will make much difference

[Zakalwe]

They should’ve called it PlaceboSteel.

[Dan Pierce]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

They should’ve called it PlaceboSteel.

Yep, can’t say I can see a difference.
dP

[SMP_DON]

People believe what they want whether it is fact or fiction. No more no less its human nature.

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[kog]

Originally Posted by SMP_DON

People believe what they want whether it is fact or fiction. No more no less its human nature.

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Maybe this will change your mind, since vintage watches were made from 316L ss:

Death of a Vintage Watch by Corrosion & Pitting

https://medium.com/@morningtundra/de...g-c187d36d8314

[Uhtred59]

Originally Posted by padi56

There are many myths on the net about the special 904l steel now called oystersteel first they do not manufacture their own steel its got from a third party in billots,and there is nothing magical about 904L or oystersteel today. It was mainly a brag factor and marketing by Rolex as they were once the only watch manufacturer using it. Today several other companies use 904L SS in watches XOSKELETON for one and Girard-Perregaux ,but in the real world 904L steel was developed to be used in high salt/acid factories like for instance vinegar pickling factories,and factories that use acid products etc.And the only difference between 904L and 316L is simply this,the main difference between 316L over 904L it has slightly more Molybdenum(Mo)approx 2% more, approx 1-2% more Crome(Cr), 1% copper(Cu), and approx 10% more nickel and that's it all quite cheap commodities.And today far more 316L is sold than 904L, now if it was the other way round 904L would be cheaper than 316L.There are a few disadvantages to 904L it will scratch and show scratches more easily than 316L.The only advantage is, it's a bit more corrosion resistant, but in the real world with today's pampered watches it's doubtful if any real advantage over the industry norm 316L.And the internet myth that 904L is harder than 316L its not true, its how the metal is finally tempered defines its overall hardness, so 316L can be harder than 904L.Most all high end brands like say Patek use the industry 316L, if there was any real advantage dont you think all the major brands would use it,marketing is a wonderful tool myself often call it brain washing.

Good to see you back in the game.