I only own and follow Rolex but

[TomV]

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

[dxbtousa]

Such broad statements make no sense; go to your boutiques and do some research.

[WatchLurv]

AP: A few models are hard to find.
Patek: All are hard to find. Waiting list. Longer than your regular Daytona.

[brucethemanlee]

double post

[brucethemanlee]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

AP: A few models are hard to find.
Patek: All are hard to find. Waiting list. Longer than your regular Daytona.

Patek 5711 and 5167 years long list (longer than Daytona) that is if you can get on one. many are closed

AP 15202 and 15500 (blue) long standing boutique clients only.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by brucethemanlee

Patek 5711 and 5167 years long list (longer than Daytona) that is if you can get on one. many are closed

AP 15202 and 15500 (blue) long standing boutique clients only.

Goes for 5712/1A as well.

Any steel from PP are simply impossible. I own 5 PP (all PM) and have spent around $190,000 with the shop (bought 3 PP from them). Still no steel in-sight. It's a different league.

I'm ready to bundle a 5905P Blue (~60-65K USD) with a steel of 5968, 5712, 5711 or 5990. They'd be doing a minimum 90K-100K+ deal with me at a 50% margin for them.

[TomV]

Longer than daytona.. and does it affect grey market price as much as it does with the SS daytona? Don't really know retail prices of SS AP or SS Patek

[Fleetlord]

Would you be as interested if they were immediately available for purchase from AD at retail price?

[PeterC4]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

Goes for 5712/1A as well.

Any steel from PP are simply impossible. I own 5 PP (all PM) and have spent around $190,000 with the shop (bought 3 PP from them). Still no steel in-sight. It's a different league.

I'm ready to bundle a 5905P Blue (~60-65K USD) with a steel of 5968, 5712, 5711 or 5990. They'd be doing a minimum 90K-100K+ deal with me at a 50% margin for them.

I think this is what Rolex is aspiring too. No offence meant, by I for one, do not find the Patek models attractive. Obviously many do find them very desirable, hence the demand. The watches certainly require serious investment dollars.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek as well?

AP steel watches can be found if you are willing to accept a dial that is NOT boutique sales only. They are not easy but with some effort you can usually find what you want in a month or two.

Patek Steel watches have waiting lists that are generally longer than Rolex ones.
That is because Patek Philippe produce far fewer watches than Rolex. To put it slightly into perspective ...
Rolex produce almost 1 million watches per year.
Patek Philippe, since they started in 1839, have not produced a million watches in total.

Rolex is one of the best known brands in the world. Patek Philippe is a very little known brand unless you are seriously into watches. The demand for Rolex is huge worldwide. Their massive advertising ensures that the brand is always very visible.
Patek Philippe have much more subtle advertising.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by TomV

Longer than daytona.. and does it affect grey market price as much as it does with the SS daytona? Don't really know retail prices of SS AP or SS Patek

You betcha, Patek sports are like Daytonas on acid, even the gold ones are more than double retail.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

Plenty of other great watches out there in the market other than Rolex. If it’s gotta be a Rolex the 5 digit exp, exp ii, subs, and SD can be had at excellent prices in great condition and I would argue more inline with their tool watch dna than the current offerings. The only real changes in the current models are for added wrist presence.

[ChronoHog]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Would you be as interested if they were immediately available for purchase from AD at retail price?

That's an interesting question that's valid for the majority of the 'hard to get pieces'. It's supply and demand at the most basic level I guess and self-perpetuating...

I'm guilty myself, to some extent. I've only got a couple of pieces, all tricky to get hold of at Retail. If I'm really honest with myself, would I have selected these models over something else with less residual value. I don't know .

I recently conducted an experiment with my wife. She knows nothing about watches - she could not care less. I showed her a number of different Rolex models and asked her to pick her favourites (I didn't tell her the cost, scarcity etc.): she selected mostly, DateJusts and PM Daytonas...




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[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by TomV

Longer than daytona.. and does it affect grey market price as much as it does with the SS daytona? Don't really know retail prices of SS AP or SS Patek

They go for double (in the sports range, i.e. nautilus) in steel, two-tone and full rose gold.

Mind you that a Patek can be priced at 85000 USD MSRP. On secondary it can easily go for 200000 USD. So yeh... Could you imagine a Daytona Rosegold for 80000?

[brettpaul]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

The waiting lists for PP and AP are even longer and the prices start at 2.5x steel sports Rolex MSRP (give or take)....then you take that MSRP and simple DOUBLE or TRIPLE that number and you've got a steel sports AP or PP. Figure about USD $60k plus for a USED PP 5711 and about $30k plus for an AP 15400.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

How long have you been in the hobby? What exactly is your “dream collection”?
Not judging, but it certainly sounds like you are one of the new hype/Instagram collectors and are simply drawn in by the chase.
I can’t imagine any long term watch enthusiast having never looked at another brand.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

Depends on the watch.

What are you looking for?

[zjd168]

PP at retail will be almost impossible, models like 5711 is 10x harder than daytona white. I knew people spent more than 1 million Us$$ didn't get it from his AD and very pissed.

AP RO SS blue dial is very difficult to get as well, others are quite doable.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by zjd168

PP at retail will be almost impossible, models like 5711 is 10x harder than daytona white. I knew people spent more than 1 million Us$$ didn't get it from his AD and very pissed.

AP RO SS blue dial is very difficult to get as well, others are quite doable.

PP collectors have to have a deeper pocket. Your entry model for a calatrava is in the 25K range. An entry model Rolex is in the 6K range.

1M and you’re still waiting like everyone else... I’d be pissed too.

[peterskinner]

Quite dispiriting. So narrow. Rolex, AP, Patek. Just buying by the numbers. The watches themselves seem to be irrelevent .

[ROlesorusLEX]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

How long have you been in the hobby? What exactly is your “dream collection”?

Not judging, but it certainly sounds like you are one of the new hype/Instagram collectors and are simply drawn in by the chase.

I can’t imagine any long term watch enthusiast having never looked at another brand.

I have been a watch enthusiast for a long time, and I really don't look at other brands, if by look you mean seriously consider. I just really like Rolex a lot. I don't find a lot of the other brands all that appealing. So it is quite possible the op feels the same way. Or, they are a hype beast. Certainly possible.

[drtii]

Originally Posted by TomV

Is it as hard to find steel watches with AP or Patek aswell?
Personally i never stepped into an AD of other brands than Rolex so i have no idea?
I have patience to build my dream collection but it's really getting out of hand so i wonder if waitinglists with those two brands are as long as with Rolex?

LOL they are worse, far worse.

I inquired about a 5711/1a last week and was told that all pieces were spoken for in 2019 and that it would take many years to acquire one.

Both AP and PP are in the business of manufactured scarcity and it's working quite well for them. Steel watches are actually quite rare from PP (at least they claim) and this means they have a very limited inventory out of the 50k watches they produce per year.

AP on the other hand I have done very little research on, but I know this - if you want the classic Royal Oak expect to buy it Grey at a $10k premium because you won't find it in store.

The Patek 5711/1a has a 2.5x premium and a suspected 8 year wait list. So if you really want the Patek be prepared to drop $80k plus on a $30k watch.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by ROlesorusLEX

I have been a watch enthusiast for a long time, and I really don't look at other brands, if by look you mean seriously consider. I just really like Rolex a lot. I don't find a lot of the other brands all that appealing. So it is quite possible the op feels the same way. Or, they are a hype beast. Certainly possible.

Cool, that’s an honest answer. So then you are actually a Rolex brand enthusiast, not necessarily a watch enthusiast.

[ROlesorusLEX]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Cool, that’s an honest answer. So then you are actually a Rolex brand enthusiast, not necessarily a watch enthusiast.

You are actually correct, that does make me a brand enthusiast. I just have a hard time spending money on other watches. I bought a breitling 18 months ago that spent about 6 months of shared time on my wrist, and although it was a nice looking watch and received more compliments than any Rolex, I couldn't help but think I'd rather have spent the money on a Rolex of some type.

It's now on somebody else's wrist, and my wife has a day date.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

Cool, that’s an honest answer. So then you are actually a Rolex brand enthusiast, not necessarily a watch enthusiast.

Most people are brand enthusiasts nowadays.

Rolex simply happens to manufacture watches.

Good reason why Rolex single handedly accounted for 20% of all watch sales globally in 2018, many multiples more than the number two.

It’s certainly not workmanship, quality, aesthetic qualities or god-forbid functions that draw most people to Rolex.

Many or all of those can be found on many other cheaper brands.

People often draw no distinction between a sub and a GMT because to the casual observer, they look very much alike.

It’s being part of ‘the club’ that’s the modern day appeal.

And the harder it is to join this club, the more people want in.






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[locutus49]

Few watches have the workmanship and quality of Rolex. Do research before making such a ridiculous statement.

Originally Posted by teck21

Most people are brand enthusiasts nowadays.

Rolex simply happens to manufacture watches.

Good reason why Rolex single handedly accounted for 20% of all watch sales globally in 2018, many multiples more than the number two.

It’s certainly not workmanship, quality, aesthetic qualities or god-forbid functions that draw most people to Rolex.

Many or all of those can be found on many other cheaper brands.

People often draw no distinction between a sub and a GMT because to the casual observer, they look very much alike.

It’s being part of ‘the club’ that’s the modern day appeal.

And the harder it is to join this club, the more people want in.






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[teck21]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Few watches have the workmanship and quality of Rolex. Do research before making such a ridiculous statement.

At an average piece of US$12,000? Please.....


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[drtii]

Originally Posted by teck21

At an average piece of US$12,000? Please.....

He isn't wrong. Price is what it is, but there's no denying that at the under $20k level you're not dealing with many in-house movement manufacturers with pedigree and a brand.

I'm not going to say you're completely wrong with your statement, either. Many are attracted to Rolex because it has prestige and is one of the only watch brands associated with wealth that the common non-watch person will know.

But, please understand that many true watch lovers buy Rolex because of what they are. Same with Patek. Same with ALS. There's a unique quality to all of the high end watch manufacturers and to say that Rolex is just a mass-produced hyped brand isn't a fair statement, they're a lot more than that and had to be a lot more than that over many decades to even attain the status they have.

[huncho]

there's nothing wrong with only liking rolex. but i do find it funny when people act like datejusts are just leftovers that no one wants and that everyone should only get subs/gmts or whatever. there were so many threads in the past year of people reporting stock that just went like "nothing interesting just datejusts" like they're some third rate watch lol. imo that really shows the difference between someone into watches and someone just chasing the hype

[Mr.Rolex1]

AP, PP, and Rolex are three good brands