16800 - original Tropical/Pumpkin or reworked

[Peemaster]

Im contemplating about buying this 16800. The Orangey pumpkin / tropical dots and hands just look amazing. However i am unable to tell if this is dial became pumpkin by „natural causes“.

I need some experts opinion on this. Natural or reworked?

https://imgur.com/a/0DKUjNJ

[Jackie Daytona]

I am in no way an expert or claim to be but I believe they’ve likely had some help.

My opinion is based off the deep fade on the bezel that in my belief should have also done this a bit to the lume plots lightening the pumpkin color rather than making it appear that deep. It also looks a little too linear in my opinion. Usually the ones I’ve seen have at least an ever so slight difference between the colors or the hands are slightly different. It’s just too even which might sound funny in my opinion.

Lastly I’m not usually a person fussing about polished or over polished pieces, but that crown guard looks to have been polished into a spike shape rather than a normal shaped crown guard.

Based off of all that I think the watch has had quite a bit of attention to make it appear like that and it would be hard to determine what is original.

I’m in no way an expert though, someone could come along and say I’m wrong on all counts. Just my feelings on it.

[tekno]

The pearl/hands and dial match perfectly — I have a hard time thinking that happened naturally.

I hope you have more then one pic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tom1675]

Even the pearl matches.

[springer]

Originally Posted by tekno

The pearl/hands and dial match perfectly — I have a hard time thinking that happened naturally.

I hope you have more then one pic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I agree and would be skeptical that everything is all original without examining the watch in person.

[Peemaster]

I’ll just hand you over the chrono long:
https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id15234383.htm

I dealt with this seller before and he always delivered great watches.

[Styles Bitchley]

Don’t think I’ve ever seen a five digit with lume that dark...but I haven’t been around as long as lots of the more experienced gents around here.

[swish77]

I'd like to see a UV/blacklight photo. That could give some clues.

However, based just on that photo, I'd have no reason to necessarily think the dial/hands/pearl have been relumed/doctored just because they match so well.

We're a funny bunch. We don't like watches with mis-matched patina, and we're suspicious (myself included) when the patina matches too well.

Tritium on the dial/hands/pearl can definitely age the same, evenly and with dark patina (see my 1665 below), but of course, more investigation would be needed.

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd like to see a UV/blacklight photo. That could give some clues.

However, based just on that photo, I'd have no reason to necessarily think the dial/hands/pearl have been relumed/doctored just because they match so well.

We're a funny bunch. We don't like watches with mis-matched patina, and we're suspicious (myself included) when the patina matches too well.

Tritium on the dial/hands/pearl can definitely age the same, evenly and with dark patina (see my 1665 below), but of course, more investigation would be needed.

That's really nice.

Health to enjoy.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd like to see a UV/blacklight photo. That could give some clues.



However, based just on that photo, I'd have no reason to necessarily think the dial/hands/pearl have been relumed/doctored just because they match so well.



We're a funny bunch. We don't like watches with mis-matched patina, and we're suspicious (myself included) when the patina matches too well.



Tritium on the dial/hands/pearl can definitely age the same, evenly and with dark patina (see my 1665 below), but of course, more investigation would be needed.

Yours has a different look, it looks like you wanted it to match but not too close.

I like them to be just a half shade different. Close but not so close they look the same color.

If your buying the end all be all 16800, from a collection that sat in a safe... I may want to know why the bezel looks worn perfectly and it is super crisp/matching so well.

If he says they matched it, I don’t think that’s bad. It’s just not as found. I would rock the hell out of it, after you find out if the lume was aged


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by tekno

Yours has a different look, it looks like you wanted it to match but not too close.

Looks like a perfect match to me.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd like to see a UV/blacklight photo. That could give some clues.

However, based just on that photo, I'd have no reason to necessarily think the dial/hands/pearl have been relumed/doctored just because they match so well.

We're a funny bunch. We don't like watches with mis-matched patina, and we're suspicious (myself included) when the patina matches too well.

Tritium on the dial/hands/pearl can definitely age the same, evenly and with dark patina (see my 1665 below), but of course, more investigation would be needed.

This.

Beautiful 1665, BTW.

FWIW I think the 16800 looks good. Just my opinion, of course.
I agree - I'd ask for a UV shot, but no reason to assume foul play when one matches.

[Erpin]

What a beauty.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by tekno

Yours has a different look, it looks like you wanted it to match but not too close.

I like them to be just a half shade different. Close but not so close they look the same color.

If your buying the end all be all 16800, from a collection that sat in a safe... I may want to know why the bezel looks worn perfectly and it is super crisp/matching so well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes, different because they all age differently, but it's 100 percent natural. I will say that in some light it looks perfectly matched (like in my photo) but in other light there are some very slight differences. That might also be the case with the OP's example. Perhaps in other photos, or in person, the patina is not as perfectly matching.

As for the aged bezel insert ... I've heard those suspicions before on watches, but since we don't know the history of the watch, I wouldn't assume the insert isn't original just because of the way it looks. Let's say that this almost 40-year-old 16800 was worn hard for a decade, causing fade and wear on the insert, and then the watch was stored away for the next 25 years, causing deep yellow patina. Quite plausible with vintage watches.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, different because they all age differently, but it's 100 percent natural. I will say that in some light it looks perfectly matched (like in my photo) but in other light there are some very slight differences. That might also be the case with the OP's example. Perhaps in other photos, or in person, the patina is not as perfectly matching.

.

I opted to buy a set of hands for my 16750 so they didn’t match. I think that slight color difference sets certain watches apart, and obviously looks more authentic.
I see attitudes changing recently about things like this, Now people are asking more questions and more watches are being sold with honest wear vs hot rodded.

The one watch I had relumed/matched is cool, but it’s obvious the hands were fixed. I should Have asked do a slight difference in color. I guess if I don’t plan to sell it who cares.

A lot of big dealers may have parts sitting around, I know some have many many sets of hands/inserts they can swap around to get a good looking combo. I think that

[swish77]

Originally Posted by tekno

I opted to buy a set of hands for my 16750 so they didn’t match. I think that slight color difference sets certain watches apart, and obviously looks more authentic.

Well, to each their own. It's part of the beauty of vintage Rolexes.

However, I don't think a watch with mis-matched patina necessarily looks more authentic. There are plenty of vintage Rolexes with matching patina that are 100 percent original.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by swish77

Well, to each their own. It's part of the beauty of vintage Rolexes.

However, I don't think a watch with mis-matched patina necessarily looks more authentic. There are plenty of vintage Rolexes with matching patina that are 100 percent original.

I thought they would age just a slightly different, what do I know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by tekno

I opted to buy a set of hands for my 16750 so they didn’t match. I think that slight color difference sets certain watches apart, and obviously looks more authentic.

So, adding a set of hands [not original to that specific watch] - with a different shade/colour from the dial - "obviously looks more authentic".

That's a good one - keep 'em coming!

[tekno]

So I’m wrong? The patina on a watch, if original should be perfectly matched? The hands and dial should be the exact same color?

I think a set of original hands look better then doctoring up a set of service hands to match perfectly. I’m talking about a color difference that is very slight, barely noticeable.

[tekno]

Ok ok, I’m wrong. I always thought dials and hands didn’t age the same. I thought matching the hands was an aesthetic preference.

I just looked at a couple NOS, never tampered with matte dial watches from 80’s - one is spot on the same and the other the hands are darker.

I still would rather a original set of hands vs a relumed set...

[CPRWATCH]

Just read the thread & thought I would post a picture of my 16800 from 81 , with pretty much uniform patina including the bezel pip . The previous owner had owned it since new & wore it for about 25 years then put it away until I bought it from him several years ago & I’ve no reason to think the patina isn’t genuine . So here it is for some comparison ,

[Redmy]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'd like to see a UV/blacklight photo. That could give some clues.

However, based just on that photo, I'd have no reason to necessarily think the dial/hands/pearl have been relumed/doctored just because they match so well.

We're a funny bunch. We don't like watches with mis-matched patina, and we're suspicious (myself included) when the patina matches too well.

Tritium on the dial/hands/pearl can definitely age the same, evenly and with dark patina (see my 1665 below), but of course, more investigation would be needed.

wet

[FrenchBigCrown]

Originally Posted by Redmy

wet

[FrenchBigCrown]

Non-'pumpkin/tropical' - but original, 16800 dial and hands for comparison.