Do Rolex Service Centres tell you if your watch is a fake?

[IanW]

Retrieving my father-in-law's Rolex bubbleback from the Hong Kong Rolex service centre, I was told the model no., movement no., and serial number. Please note that none of this was written on the receipt, only relayed orally. Checking later on the internet led me to the information about large numbers of fake bubblebacks, many with this model no. (5015), and many apparently originating in Hong Kong. My question (please help) is whether Rolex themselves - via their very grand, very expensive service centres - have a policy of telling the hard truth and breaking bad news to their customers or just leaving well enough alone and keeping schtum when fake watches turn up. Does the customer have to ask? Would he get an answer?

[mixedccr]

Not told directly, but while i was in line to have my SD serviced [here in s'pore], the Customer Relations Exec was conversing with some folks infront of me, how some parts in their watch were not original and was therefore not acceptable as a job. So i'd infer that the answer is 'yes'.

[Yume-sama]

As far as I know, and from what I have been told, the official Rolex policy is that if a watch is either...

A) Fake
B) Stolen

They will confiscate it and not return it to the person who sent it in.

[2careless]

It's odd that RSC HK only relays the info verbally. Here in Melbourne the RSC service report lists out the model name, reference, serial number, dial colour, bracelet reference # and calibre, even for adding a link.

You can also pay them to do an authentication report. They will produce a letter on Rolex letterhead similar to this:

Dear XYZ,
After inspection at the Rolex Service Center your timepiece has been found to be a genuine Gents Stainless Steel Rolex Oyster Perpetual Date.
- The model number is 15210
- The serial number is Axxxxxx
- Dial colour is Blue
- The timepiece has been fitted with a Stainless Steel Oyster Bracelet. reference: 78350 19 557B (12 links)
...

[IanW]

Thanks to all for your answers on this thread.

As to the authentication report - any idea how much they charge?

Rolex didn't actually do any work on the watch when we put it in for repair. They returned it saying that it was basically too gummed up to do anything with.

I'm thinking now that this is their let-'em-down-lightly way of saying we don't touch fakes.

[chenx15]

Originally Posted by IanW

Thanks to all for your answers on this thread.

As to the authentication report - any idea how much they charge?

Rolex didn't actually do any work on the watch when we put it in for repair. They returned it saying that it was basically too gummed up to do anything with.

I'm thinking now that this is their let-'em-down-lightly way of saying we don't touch fakes.

RSC does not sugar coat. they confiscate. maybe your watch is too vintage for RSC in hong kong. some of the experts here in trf will lead you the way to vintage watch makers.

i believe in the US it's 50 dollars for aunthentication, in canada it's 150 dollars. or you can ask them to put an extra link for your bracelet it will be 50 dollars but you get a link and authenticity papers.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by chenx15

RSC does not sugar coat. they confiscate. maybe your watch is too vintage for RSC in hong kong. some of the experts here in trf will lead you the way to vintage watch makers.
.

If the watch is counterfeit or stolen, you will never see it again. The fact is that counterfeit watches are illegal so they have every right to confiscate and destroy the watch. If it is stolen, they will return it to the original owner.

[Atlanta]

So if you are purchasing a vintage watch (60-70's era), can you call first to ensure you don't have a 'hot' watch? When a watch is that old, there is no way to know otherwise from a buyers perspective?

[ayeya]

how do they know if the watch is stolen? say if i bought the watch from a third party and the watch is registered under the third party's name and the third party sells the watch to me then report watch stolen, will i get in trouble?

[yannis]

Originally Posted by karmatp

If the watch is counterfeit or stolen, you will never see it again.

Hi Trevor!! I have often heard this and I really doubt that an RSC has the right to confiscate a watch because it merely is reported stolen or even if it has actually been stolen. Some countries' national Civil Code enactments (like the Civil Law of my country) protect the innocent buyer who purchases a "product" that is stolen and he is unaware of the fact that it is so. I would really like to hear the opinion of an American Attorney on the matter if someone happens to be member of the forum. The power of the RSC in case the law protects the innocent buyer who is unaware of the fact that a product he purchases is stolen, should then be limited to at most reporting to the original owner. No RSC should be above the law, so i can tell you for sure that this is the case in my country (i.e no RSC has the right confiscate a watch). I would seriously doubt the case is different in the US and in case such a thing has happened (i.e. RSC confiscating a watch) i doubt that it is lawful to do so.

[charliec]

If it's fake the internal alarm bell rings, the horns go off and a reasonably sized cannon explodes with millions of paper bits streaming down from the ceiling. A circus clown drives around the RSC in his toy car laughing at you !!!! To cap it all off all the staff start laughing and all the other customers with genuine watches wag their fingers at you ........................... apparently !!!

[Gasoil4ever]

Originally Posted by charliec

If it's fake the internal alarm bell rings, the horns go off and a reasonably sized cannon explodes with millions of paper bits streaming down from the ceiling. A circus clown drives around the RSC in his toy car laughing at you !!!! To cap it all off all the staff start laughing and all the other customers with genuine watches wag their fingers at you ........................... apparently !!!

And a bunch of kids throw stones at you !!

[karmatp]

Hey Yannis, in my eyes, there is no such thing as a innocent buyer holding stolen merchandise. I have a couple of friends who have sent in all the proper paperwork the RUSA after their watches were stolen and RUSA told them if the watch enters on of their service centers, they will confiscate and contact them. People who are in possession of stolen merchandise have very little rights IMHO to the merchandise. My local AD who actually is very knowledgeable believe it or not has also stated the same facts in the matter.

[yannis]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Hey Yannis, in my eyes, there is no such thing as a innocent buyer holding stolen merchandise.

It is not the forum's purpose so i will not expand on the legal, ethical/moral issues arising out of the protection the law offers (at least the law in my country) concerning people who innocently purchase a product in good faith that the product is legitimate, which product is later found to be stolen (there are different schools of legal theory on the matter in favour or against such protection). Imho though such buyers should be protected. When a dispute arises and the law protects the buyer, a court will make the decision and no RSC.
Still if there is such a law in force in the US (i.e. a law protecting the buyer who purchases in good faith), it is illegal for an RSC to confiscate.

[fmalloy]

Originally Posted by karmatp

Hey Yannis, in my eyes, there is no such thing as a innocent buyer holding stolen merchandise.

So, anyone who buys a stolen watch from anywhere other than an AD with it being brand-new, could have their watch confiscated by RSC? Do legit ADs that sell used watches have access to the stolen database?

Just how does a buyer do their homework and confirm the watch is not stolen before buying it?

[yannis]

Originally Posted by IanW

Retrieving my father-in-law's Rolex bubbleback from the Hong Kong Rolex service centre, I was told the model no., movement no., and serial number. Please note that none of this was written on the receipt, only relayed orally. Checking later on the internet led me to the information about large numbers of fake bubblebacks, many with this model no. (5015), and many apparently originating in Hong Kong. My question (please help) is whether Rolex themselves - via their very grand, very expensive service centres - have a policy of telling the hard truth and breaking bad news to their customers or just leaving well enough alone and keeping schtum when fake watches turn up. Does the customer have to ask? Would he get an answer?

I have purchased three Rolexes so far and had them all checked at the RSC in Athens! They will tell you if the watch is fake! If it is fake they will just return it to you telling you it is a counterfeit!
As a sidenote: RSCs have no right of confiscation over a counterfeit either. RSCs are not law enforcement agencies they are just commercial entities.

[casadecamporolex]

In the USA, RSC will return a watch that is not genuine with a note. Years ago, I purchased what I thought was a vintage Explorer for a low price. Sent it to Dallas RSC, and they sent it back with a note that informed me of its "fake" status.
Man, was I pissed off and embarassed by my stupidity.
Now, with my new friends on TRF, this would never happen.

[folexhater]

Originally Posted by karmatp

If the watch is counterfeit or stolen, you will never see it again. The fact is that counterfeit watches are illegal so they have every right to confiscate and destroy the watch. If it is stolen, they will return it to the original owner.

right on!

[Atlanta]

Originally Posted by fmalloy

Just how does a buyer do their homework and confirm the watch is not stolen before buying it?

Great question - anyone?

[vapalux]

Originally Posted by karmatp

If the watch is counterfeit or stolen, you will never see it again. The fact is that counterfeit watches are illegal so they have every right to confiscate and destroy the watch. If it is stolen, they will return it to the original owner.

I had a problem with a DJ I had bought. AD said it was fake so off to Rolex it went. This was on the understanding that if there were any parts in it that were fake they would be removed from the watch and returned to me separately. If the whole thing was fake |I don't think I would have seen it again as how are the fakes kept off the street? Rolex knowing its a fake and sending it back.........Don't think so!

I was given an authentication report complete with documents to say what it was. It was a real Rolex. AD didn't know what he was talking about.

Si

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by chenx15

RSC does not sugar coat. they confiscate. maybe your watch is too vintage for RSC in hong kong. some of the experts here in trf will lead you the way to vintage watch makers.

i believe in the US it's 50 dollars for aunthentication, in canada it's 150 dollars. or you can ask them to put an extra link for your bracelet it will be 50 dollars but you get a link and authenticity papers.

That was my thought -I don't know when Rolex stopped making bubblebacks, but I didn't think the service centers would work on them if they were of a certain vintage.

[folexhater]

Originally Posted by ayeya

how do they know if the watch is stolen? say if i bought the watch from a third party and the watch is registered under the third party's name and the third party sells the watch to me then report watch stolen, will i get in trouble?

Not if you have proof that the watch was sold to you by that third party! You wouldnt buy a watch from a third party without any kind of documentions ( receipt etc....) would you?

[dkpw]

Here in the UK there is the offence of Handling Stolen Goods contrary to Section 22 of the Theft Act 1968. Basically speaking, if you as a buyer "know or believe" your item to be stolen, you are guilty of an offence.

Having said that it can be difficult to prove the state of mind of an accused person and so such things as receipts, paper work, stated price paid and other evidence are taken into account. Namely, if you bought a Rolex normally valued at say £3,000 from "John" in the Rose & Crown for £500, the fact that you had a receipt from "John" would not go far in mitigation. Why would he sell you a watch for £500 when he could make 6x times as much elsewhere?

Again, here in the UK if an item is stolen, the ownership of that item is NEVER transferred. Even if someone innocently bought something, it still legally belongs to the original owner and is returned to them or the insurance company if they have settled any claim. The person who bought the stolen item in such circumstances is the loser - no watch - no money.

Caveat emptor!

[fmalloy]

Basically, buying stolen property unknowingly is very unfortunate for the buyer, and the watch still belongs to the rightful owner.

However, are the police to determine this, or a RSC? How does RSC get their "list"? And, do they contact the rightful owner? How often does this happen?

So many questions...

[Stevengraph]

Hi, I bought a GMT II Pepsi about 5 years ago from a good friend who is a jewellery dealer. He bought it from a watch dealer in London. I took it to RSC in St James’s Sq in Mayfair to have it serviced. After a week I had heard nothing so I phoned them. I was told the watch had been stolen in Germany some years ago and they had retained it and informed the police. I paid £5200 which was about right at the time. I gave a statement to the police. I got my money back as did my friend who had sold it to me. I was subsequently told that it had been recovered after the robbery and that it had been sold on the open market by the insurance company but had never been removed from the stolen database.

RolexGMT II (another one!). Yacht Master 16622. Rolex Cellini 4083 Zephyr