How does PAM.GUARD prove authenticity?

[HiBoost]

I've seen countless posts referencing PAM.GUARD as the way to know if your watch is real or not. It seems to be taken as fact that if a watch registers, then it is real. I'm trying to convince myself of this but I'm tripped up on a few scenarios.

If a counterfeiter produces a copy of a real watch, then that fake will have the same model #/serial # combination as a real watch. How would the service know which is which? If it only allowed the original owner to register (or, more precisely, if it only allowed a single registration for a given model/serial pairing) then people buying 2nd hand could be out of luck. If it allows multiple registrations on the same serial/model combo, then how does it weed out the fakes?

I thought perhaps the papers, linking this model/serial combo to a particular AD (and ideally date of sale) might help make this much more robust. But then I was surprised to see people claiming that they were able to successfully register their newly acquired pieces which did not come with box or papers. So that gets me back to square one. If the registration service only goes off of data on the watch itself, how does this prove anything?

[burnthesehills]

I am not sure there is actually any guarantee of authenticity. I’m pretty sure the program is simply a way to extend the factory warranty. I believe it is only available for Panerai watches purchased within the past two years and that you need a valid warranty card.

For example, I registered my 2008 PAM000. It basically just stated what my watch was based on the serial number and “added it to my collection “. I then received an email stating that my watch was not eligible for an extended warranty. Which is what I expected. I do not believe any of this is really any form of authentication.

However, for a new Panerai purchased within the past two years with a warranty card, I do wonder if it checks the information against its internal system. I would think that it does. But as you suggested, there could be loopholes with the system. For example the warranty card and QR code might be legit, but the watch could be counterfeit. It also appears that you can simply enter the serial number with no warranty card.

I guess one stop gap measure would be if the serial number was entered previously. But if it wasn’t, all you are really providing them is the serial number of a Panerai watch. Theoretically you could not even have the watch in your possession.

So thinking this through, it probably does offer some form of protection / reassurance, but not much.

Have you tried calling Panerai directly to inquire? They can be fairly helpful on the phone depending on who you get.

[Polar Bear]

This is why you often see Rolex watches pictured online without their serial numbers blanked out

If you contact a manufacturer (any) to ask if a serial number is genuine, all they can tell you is that the serial number you gave them matches a model in their database

Its not a fool proof system but if you're a long way away from a Panerai AD or competent watchmaker, its better than nothing

[htc8p]

you just have to inspect the watch yourself. fakes will always have lower finishing/quality and looks ugly.

but i think these days it would be better to bring to Service center and pay addl for opening the movement.

[rootbeer7]

It’s a way of checking authenticity on older watches. It’s highly unlikely a faker making thousands of items will use correct movement and case numbers.

[rambo99]

it certainly can act as some kind of authentication, especially on the legitimacy of the serial number. if it's not been registered, you can register it to prove authenticity. if it's been registered, you can ask the seller to log in to his registration page to show he is the real owner of the watch.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by burnthesehills

For example, I registered my 2008 PAM000. It basically just stated what my watch was based on the serial number and “added it to my collection “. I then received an email stating that my watch was not eligible for an extended warranty. Which is what I expected. I do not believe any of this is really any form of authentication.

However, for a new Panerai purchased within the past two years with a warranty card, I do wonder if it checks the information against its internal system. I would think that it does. But as you suggested, there could be loopholes with the system. For example the warranty card and QR code might be legit, but the watch could be counterfeit. It also appears that you can simply enter the serial number with no warranty card.

Your thoughts mirror mine. This system may uncover some issue, but it certainly isn't guaranteed to do so. On the other forums I see one person after another citing PAM.GUARD is that "only way to know for sure" that your second hand Panerai is authentic. That just seems bogus to me.

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

It’s a way of checking authenticity on older watches. It’s highly unlikely a faker making thousands of items will use correct movement and case numbers.

Not sure what you mean by movement numbers. I've never seen a Panerai movement that had a serial number or per-watch identifier on it. And even if there was one, you couldn't easily access that data on the closed caseback models. AFAIK you only have to key in the serial number from the caseback to register with this system. Presumably a fake isn't going to have an obviously bogus serial number like 1111111, I'm going to guess that they have a copy of a valid serial number from some genuine watch. It's possible that somebody at Panerai is continually keying in "known fake" serials by scouring the internet for replicas, but that seems unlikely and obviously incomplete.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Your thoughts mirror mine. This system may uncover some issue, but it certainly isn't guaranteed to do so. On the other forums I see one person after another citing PAM.GUARD is that "only way to know for sure" that your second hand Panerai is authentic. That just seems bogus to me.



Not sure what you mean by movement numbers. I've never seen a Panerai movement that had a serial number or per-watch identifier on it. And even if there was one, you couldn't easily access that data on the closed caseback models. AFAIK you only have to key in the serial number from the caseback to register with this system. Presumably a fake isn't going to have an obviously bogus serial number like 1111111, I'm going to guess that they have a copy of a valid serial number from some genuine watch. It's possible that somebody at Panerai is continually keying in "known fake" serials by scouring the internet for replicas, but that seems unlikely and obviously incomplete.

The number is made up of case number & specific to each watch an individual BB (serial) number. Apologies, not movement number.