Help/advice with a hit and run

[dmash]

Originally Posted by donas

Every state has different requirements. Beyond that, every officer has the discretion to make what charges they deem to fit. There is no point going back and forth on here, we are all just trying to help the OP. As far as private property, in the state I worked, all it took was a sign saying law enforcement has jurisdiction on the property and even speeding tickets could be written in a parking lot.

I can say with near certainty, that if somebody backed into/swiped a car in a parking lot and never got out of the car, it would immediately be dismissed in court for anything 'criminal'. As you're fully aware, it's innocent until proven guilty, and in this situation it's impossible to prove their guilt. Any responding officer can charge whatever they want, but end of day that means nothing until tried. A newly minted public defender could get that case thrown out with one call.

but yes, I digress, I was only bringing up in case it lit a fire with OP to pursue litigation, as it's going to be a waste of his money/time/resources. It's way easier here to just get it fixed with insurance, chalk it up as a horrible person not taking responsibility and hoping karma takes care of the rest. We're definitely all in agreement here that OP got the short end of the stick.

[donas]

Originally Posted by dmash

I can say with near certainty, that if somebody backed into/swiped a car in a parking lot and never got out of the car, it would immediately be dismissed in court for anything 'criminal'. As you're fully aware, it's innocent until proven guilty, and in this situation it's impossible to prove their guilt. Any responding officer can charge whatever they want, but end of day that means nothing until tried. A newly minted public defender could get that case thrown out with one call.

but yes, I digress, I was only bringing up in case it lit a fire with OP to pursue litigation, as it's going to be a waste of his money/time/resources. It's way easier here to just get it fixed with insurance, chalk it up as a horrible person not taking responsibility and hoping karma takes care of the rest. We're definitely all in agreement here that OP got the short end of the stick.

If you are law enforcement, our careers have certainly been different. Guess I was lucky to work where I did.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by donas

If you are law enforcement, our careers have certainly been different. Guess I was lucky to work where I did.

Not LE, but have extensive experience and friends dealing with law. You can't convict somebody of *criminal* property damage in a parking lot if you can't even prove they were aware of the situation that transpired. This is literally the lawful requirement. Again, I'm not saying a *civil* lawsuit isn't possible, I'm strictly talking about the criminal aspect of it.

Personal injury and involving another person- absolutely yes can be criminal
Highway hit- could go either way
Parking lot and they never even got out of the car- no way criminal, that's 100% civil

Could you imagine if courts started allowing *criminal* litigation for door dings?


EDIT:

Tennessee- https://law.justia.com/codes/tenness...rt-4/39-14-408

"Any person who knowingly causes damage to or the destruction of any real or personal property of another or of the state, the United States, any county, city, or town knowing that the person does not have the owner's effective consent is guilty of an offense under this section.

[Cru Jones]

PITA, sorry.

Maybe ask a private investigator look into it for you?

[donas]

Originally Posted by dmash

Not LE, but have extensive experience and friends dealing with law. You can't convict somebody of *criminal* property damage in a parking lot if you can't even prove they were aware of the situation that transpired. This is literally the lawful requirement. Again, I'm not saying a *civil* lawsuit isn't possible, I'm strictly talking about the criminal aspect of it.

Personal injury and involving another person- absolutely yes can be criminal
Highway hit- could go either way
Parking lot and they never even got out of the car- no way criminal, that's 100% civil

Could you imagine if courts started allowing *criminal* litigation for door dings?


EDIT:

Tennessee- https://law.justia.com/codes/tenness...rt-4/39-14-408

"Any person who knowingly causes damage to or the destruction of any real or personal property of another or of the state, the United States, any county, city, or town knowing that the person does not have the owner's effective consent is guilty of an offense under this section.

Re-read OP's post. $10,000 damage, he clearly knew he hit the car as he had to change gears to maneuver, couldn't drive straight off. We didn't use prosecutors for misdemeanors, I'd get a conviction everytime on this and have. I'm speaking from experience. Again, maybe not every state, but in some. I didn't retire or work in TN as the law you posted, but nevertheless, this driver still knew what he did.

....this is not a door ding situation either. This is damage from the operation of a motor vehicle. Ok, I'm done. I'm sure you have a retort, you get the last word

[dmash]

Originally Posted by donas

Re-read OP's post. $10,000 damage, he clearly knew he hit the car as he had to change gears to maneuver, couldn't drive straight off. We didn't use prosecutors for misdemeanors, I'd get a conviction everytime on this and have. I'm speaking from experience. Again, maybe not every state, but in some. I didn't retire or work in TN as the law you posted, but nevertheless, this driver still knew what he did.

....this is not a door ding situation either. This is damage from the operation of a motor vehicle. Ok, I'm done. I'm sure you have a retort, you get the last word

I'm really not trying to be argumentative at all, and I don't think either of us mean any ill harm. It's not a retort if I'm simply bringing truth to a subject matter and disagreeing with what you're saying.

OP could be driving a $250k Porsche for all we know, $10k could be the equivalent of a light bumper tap on a carbon fiber component. Again, you're assuming 'he knows' as bolded above. In all 50 states one *must* have knowledge of the wrongdoing to ever get a conviction. Changing gears or not, that's not going to prove anything without a doubt.

Additionally, any criminal case can be defended (as is a right in our constitution), so who's prosecuting the defendant then if it goes to court? There's a separation of duties, the police cannot prosecute a defendant........

[donas]

Originally Posted by dmash

Additionally, any criminal case can be defended (as is a right in our constitution), so who's prosecuting the defendant then if it goes to court? There's a separation of duties, the police cannot prosecute a defendant........

Correct, no ill will, just differing views, which is always interesting when kept civil

I'm not debating the facts of the OP's post any further, but to answer your question - we (the arresting officer) prosecuted all our own cases except those that fell into the jurisdiction of General Sessions Court, which was high misdemeanors and felonies. This case would have been charged and prosecuted by the same officer for us.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by donas

Correct, no ill will, just differing views, which is always interesting when kept civil

I'm not debating the facts of the OP's post any further, but to answer your question - we (the arresting officer) prosecuted all our own cases except those that fell into the jurisdiction of General Sessions Court, which was high misdemeanors and felonies. This case would have been charged and prosecuted by the same officer for us.

Yup, 100% civil!

That's actually enlightening. I'm not an attorney myself, but I consider myself well versed on a lot of law, and thought an actual officer could not prosecute a case in any state. As I thought there always had to be some type of separation, considering they're the arresting party. Learn something new every day!