The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12 February 2023, 04:11 AM   #31
WBaileyii
"TRF" Member
 
WBaileyii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Real Name: Will
Location: PacNW, USA
Watch: 16610/126610LV
Posts: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by EEpro View Post
This article has another take on the results. Luxury watch sales were up 22% to £340 million.

Obviously a decrease in jewelry sales scared the investors off.

"CEO Brian Duffy said recession fears and the rising cost of living have not stopped customers from buying luxury timepieces."

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/...-b1059024.html

Revenue was up, but what about volume? I wonder if they were just unloading all the high end stuff because they see a slow down coming and want to make sure they aren't stuck with really expensive watches they can't sell...it will be interesting to see what the next quarter results show.
WBaileyii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:12 AM   #32
amh
"TRF" Member
 
amh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tejas
Watch: Various
Posts: 5,082
Slowing jewelry sales? That means people are less willing to buy marked up diamonds when building the coveted AD Relationship.
amh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:18 AM   #33
dannyp
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 6,765
Doesn’t matter how good sales are if the company isn’t making sound financial decisions. And right now, I wouldn’t be betting on the opening of more and more retail locations with zero ability to scale, sometimes selling items of questionable desirability. Also, if the idea of “bundling” resonates with analysts, they’ll be left wondering about the “mono-brand” boutique strategy when those boutiques don’t sell the most desirable.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:33 AM   #34
Fleetlord
2024 Pledge Member
 
Fleetlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vain
Posts: 6,027
Other than ROLEX, Patek and maybe.....maybe Omega / Cartier...the rest of WOS offerings are relatively soft and weak brands @ retail..that includes a weakening GS in their portfolio. GS got off to a hot start with WOS, but it has cooled off dramatically according to local SA's I have personally interrogated.

So, perhaps WOS expected the ROLEX tide to continue to lift sales of all their offerings..but at the end of the day, soft brands are soft brands and they will certainly be the first to feel the sales slump as the general public buyers really don't want watches that lose value (they equate it to "junk")....
Fleetlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:35 AM   #35
Vince_76
"TRF" Member
 
Vince_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by huncho View Post
i don't discredit either outcome and whether they go up or down makes no difference to me because i'm not planning to buy or sell. i think i just hate doomers who see prices crashing and post hot takes about the economy or financial markets. there's way too much activity here for me to find examples to PM you but yeah don't take that post as a shot at you, i use that term a lot myself so that wasn't my intention lol. i just think the opinion that a good amount of watches will remain hard to get is definitely the minority opinion today. now that most prices have finally settled around msrp it seems to have calmed down a bit here though
All good man. I really appreciate your thoughtful posts on here, and I know it’s not a shot at me (hopefully others think the same). I think your stance is very reasonable tbh. Who knows exactly where we’ll end up. I think MSRP +/- 10% will be the norm for many of the “hype” references we saw.
__________________
AP 15500ST (Silver) // ♛ Rolex 126334 (Blue Roman, Fluted, Jubilee) // Ω Moonswatch (Mission to Pluto) // G-Shock GA2100-1A1
Vince_76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:40 AM   #36
dannyp
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetlord View Post
Other than ROLEX, Patek and maybe.....maybe Omega / Cartier...the rest of WOS offerings are relatively soft and weak brands @ retail..that includes a weakening GS in their portfolio. GS got off to a hot start with WOS, but it has cooled off dramatically according to local SA's I have personally interrogated.

So, perhaps WOS expected the ROLEX tide to continue to lift sales of all their offerings..but at the end of the day, soft brands are soft brands and they will certainly be the first to feel the sales slump as people really don't want watches that lose value (they equate it to "junk")....
Said in group website that there’s at least one AP boutique in the portfolio.

But you’re academy right, and that is why a stand-alone TAG or Breitling store is a stupid idea. Absolutely no opportunities to bundle, nor start a “relationship” of the kind many do. Result will be idle inventory, deep discounts, and steep rent.

Investors and analysts (many of whom are also probably buyers of expensive watches and have firsthand experience) are going to figure this out.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 04:51 AM   #37
Fleetlord
2024 Pledge Member
 
Fleetlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vain
Posts: 6,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
Said in group website that there’s at least one AP boutique in the portfolio.

But you’re academy right, and that is why a stand-alone TAG or Breitling store is a stupid idea. Absolutely no opportunities to bundle, nor start a “relationship” of the kind many do. Result will be idle inventory, deep discounts, and steep rent.

Investors and analysts (many of whom are also probably buyers of expensive watches and have firsthand experience) are going to figure this out.
I missed they have an AP spot...I don't see it on their site..but it's so exclusive that it's not listed..

https://www.watchesofswitzerland.com/c/Brands


But yeah, I think these execs just thought that all their offered brands would just continue to rise in sales as people just bought any watch because of the ROLEX unavailability...but that was all a mirage and the first of the segment to fall as people really don't want those brands and when the SHTF as projected, they will be cast aside as toxic poison. Then all the nasty markdowns and clearance cases will pop up further ruining those brands....meanwhile Rolex will keep on keeping on.
Fleetlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 05:36 AM   #38
dannyp
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetlord View Post
I missed they have an AP spot...I don't see it on their site..but it's so exclusive that it's not listed..

https://www.watchesofswitzerland.com/c/Brands


But yeah, I think these execs just thought that all their offered brands would just continue to rise in sales as people just bought any watch because of the ROLEX unavailability...but that was all a mirage and the first of the segment to fall as people really don't want those brands and when the SHTF as projected, they will be cast aside as toxic poison. Then all the nasty markdowns and clearance cases will pop up further ruining those brands....meanwhile Rolex will keep on keeping on.
Looks like there’s an AP one in the US (if you look at mono-brand boutique section). EDIT: It's on the WOS Group corporate site, not the retail site.

Think there was also a miscalculation about the purchase of other brands: people weren’t doing it because of no Rolex but because it was the path to Rolex. But, a location without Rolex and…

Applies Patek, some VC, for the record.

There’s also the question of how well they have been able to operate Mayors, which isn’t just watches.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 05:43 AM   #39
Fleetlord
2024 Pledge Member
 
Fleetlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Vain
Posts: 6,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyp View Post
Looks like there’s an AP one in the US (if you look at mono-brand boutique section).

Think there was also a miscalculation about the purchase of other brands: people weren’t doing it because of no Rolex but because it was the path to Rolex. But, a location without Rolex and…

Applies Patek, some VC, for the record.

There’s also the question of how well they have been able to operate Mayors, which isn’t just watches.
Oh peeps were buying up other stuff to get in favor for Rolex allocation too..but they're were a lot of anecdotal comments on forums about people buying other brands in lieu of Rolex....so I didn't balance that with the reality of bundling that has also been occurring...
Fleetlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 05:45 AM   #40
dannyp
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleetlord View Post
Oh peeps were buying up other stuff to get in favor for Rolex allocation too..but they're were a lot of anecdotal comments on forums about people buying other brands in lieu of Rolex....so I didn't balance that with the reality of bundling that has also been occurring...
True, there was a lot of "ok, I'll get my third, fourth, or fifth choice" but I'm guessing that this was happening in locations selling Rolex or Patek. Bad news delivered, disappointment sets in, desperation takes over. Those are the first of the twelve stages of watch-grief, right?
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 06:07 AM   #41
enjoythemusic
2024 Pledge Member
 
enjoythemusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 21,210
Imho, longterm we're very well ahead of where things were only a few decades ago. Yes the rate of growth will / is / may be slowing a bit, yet on 'the grand scale' the demand for mechanical watches is very good. From entry-level and mid-range to horological art is still healthy. Especially compared to the 1980s, or 1997, and of course 2008... mmmaybe 2024.

As for WoS, they offer more than just PP and Rolex and... They opened an MB&F Gallerie in London (need one in Miami hint hint), they stock Jacob & Co (their sales are very much on the rise), Moser, Omega (didn't see anyone mention Omega), Armin Strom, Bell & Ross, IWC, Panerai... and many others.

https://www.watchesofswitzerland.com/c/Brands

Long term I feel the health and love of horology will continue to grow. But yes, dips along the way. WoS is securing prized locations while also expanding to be well-positioned for the next wave up. Tho yes, think the massive growth RATE has slowed its' pace, but we're good.

jmho ymmv
__________________
__________________

----> Was Great Seeing Everyone At The TRF December 9 Tampa Meetup <----
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=968133

Love timepieces and want to become a Watchmaker? Rolex has a sensational school.
www.RolexWatchmakingTrainingCenter.com/

Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory.
enjoythemusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 07:28 AM   #42
dannyp
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: usa
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
WoS is securing prized locations
This is what they're likely getting beat up on by the analysts. WoS has accepted "certainty" in the form of overhead while facing great uncertainty in terms of the near-term market for its brands.
dannyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 12:13 PM   #43
enjoythemusic
2024 Pledge Member
 
enjoythemusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 21,210
Fair enough, yet long-term we'll have another leg up (higher highs). jmho
__________________
__________________

----> Was Great Seeing Everyone At The TRF December 9 Tampa Meetup <----
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=968133

Love timepieces and want to become a Watchmaker? Rolex has a sensational school.
www.RolexWatchmakingTrainingCenter.com/

Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory.
enjoythemusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 12:24 PM   #44
TheVTCGuy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Paul
Location: San Diego
Watch: 126619LB
Posts: 21,540
Can someone explain to a Dorklehead about all matters economical and financial….


What does this all mean? The watch industry is headed for a recession?
TheVTCGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 February 2023, 01:42 PM   #45
Easy E
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: GA
Posts: 5,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
Can someone explain to a Dorklehead about all matters economical and financial….


What does this all mean? The watch industry is headed for a recession?
Absolutely

https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/hhdc
Easy E is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 9 (0 members and 9 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

OCWatches

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.