Thoughts on this Deal Gone Bad

[C. Davidson]

Omeglomania, Welcome to the Rolex Forums aka "TRF"!

I started on this forum a year ago and Im still here today. TRF is a great place filled with many friendly and knowledgeable people that have a tremendous passion for Rolex watches.

Originally Posted by omeglomania

Ross, I will keep the watch. Even though what stated in your ad was not correct I know your intent was not to mislead. I would have been nice though if you would have offered the same consideration.

Considering the lack of consideration that you recieved from the seller, this makes you top-knotch in my book. I have always been of the mindset that the customer is always right and always has to option to think twice or back out of any given deal. It is the fiduciary duty of the seller to go above and beyond the buyers expectations to make them satisfied with the transaction, not the other way around. Again, top-knotch on your part.



Unless there has been some type of crime commited, threads that comment on "private" business transactions are in bad taste.

[Andad]

Welcome to the Forum Omeglomania.

IMO it was good that you joined to add to the discussion.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by C. Davidson

:It is the fiduciary duty of the seller to go above and beyond the buyers expectations to make them satisfied with the transaction, not the other way around. Again, top-knotch on your part.

I hope you're kidding. The seller's obligation is to deliver what he promised. If I sell x, I'll deliver x, not x, y and z. If I choose to give y and z, it's because I'm a nice guy, not because it's my "fiduciary duty".

Unless there has been some type of crime commited, threads that comment on "private" business transactions are in bad taste.

Now this, I can agree with.

[Deep Sea]

Originally Posted by omeglomania

Hello All,
I'm the buyer in this transaction. I am new to the Rolex Forum. I learned of it from Ross(the seller) in his post to sell this watch in one of the two other main WIS forums both of which I am a member. My love of watches spans many years and I understand how transactions between strangers for items of significant value can be a tense and delicate propostion. Especially with all the fakes and scammers out there.
It might be considered naive for me to misinterpret what was actually written and perhaps I should have clarified what was offered before I entered into the transaction. I would think though that the assumption would be those who partake in these forums have a higher knowlege of watches and would not easily interchange the use of the different parts such as bezels and an inserts. Instead I assumed what was written was what was offered. Even more ironic is that the seller lists his occupation as attorney in his profile in another forum. One would also think that if anyone would appreciate the importance of exact wording, it would those who make their living in the specificity of language.
As soon as I received the watch and noticed the discrepancy I contacted Ross explaining the misunderstanding and offered three suggestions. He could procure the bezel and supply it to me, he could refund the mutually agreed upon cost of the bezel, or just refund the entire transaction. I also offered him the option of coming up with his own solution to the dilema.
He chose the refund which I respected and appreciated even though I had hoped we could find a solution in which I could keep the watch. I stressed that it was important that we were both satisfied with the outcome. My postion is that although the money is important, it is the trust and honor that we build in these transactions that ultimately hold the higher value.
My blood does not boil, however I would have hoped that Ross would have opened a private line of communication with me rather than using the energy to post his dissatisfaction in this public forum.
Ross, I will keep the watch. Even though what stated in your ad was not correct I know your intent was not to mislead. I would have been nice though if you would have offered the same consideration.

Welcome to the forum.

I've been following this thread since it began, and think it is good to hear the other side of the story. First, I don't consider this a "deal gone bad", as the original poster stated. This is an error in communications, specifically on the part of the seller.

His ad states a Coke & Pepsi bezel; therefore, I would expect an extra Coke or Pepsi bezel (with an insert to arrive) with the watch. Many here have said it was crazy for you to think you could get this watch w/ extra bezel & insert for the price listed. Ten months ago, I would have agreed. Today, given the economy, I would not be at all surprised to find this kind of deal, especially on a watch that is potentially pushing 4 years old. In addition, there are many folks out there who do have extra bezels complete w/ insert, especially for the 16710. I had several for 16610 Subs, but got rid of them a while back. Heck, I even have brand new bezel inserts for a GMT, and don't even own one. My point is spare parts are everywhere now, so this deal would not have been surprising to me at all. Plus, I looked at the sellers ad, and he mentions a bezel, but he shows neither an extra bezel or insert in the pictures. My assumption would be he has an extra bezel & insert.

Either way, you chose the high road, kept the watch, and stated your side of the story in simple terms without emotion or name-calling. Solid move, in my opinion.

[Lion]

Live and learn from your mistakes!!!
Omeglomania, welcome to the Forum.....

[Brushpup]

Hi Omeglomania,

First off welcome to TRF. I'm sorry you are joining under these circumstances but hope you stick around. I am one of those who owe you an apology, so please allow me to do so now. I stated that I thought you were being anal about the transaction and I was absolutely wrong. For that I am sorry.


No matter what I think I would have done or asked is irrelavant, and after thinking more about this, I believe you were not at fault here. I hope you will consider my apology and accept a sincere welcome. You handled this honorably and quite eloquently I might add. Hope to see you on the boards!

Cordially,
Patrick

[theloxmyth]

Wasn't going to post, but I read Patrick's post and feel the same way.

All is well that ends well.

P.S. Nice watch : )

[drtooth73]

Originally Posted by Deep Sea

Either way, you chose the high road, kept the watch, and stated your side of the story in simple terms without emotion or name-calling. Solid move, in my opinion.

Well said!

[sheldonsmith]

This deal is tough as both sides have a point.

FWIW, getting a genuine Rolex bezel (not the insert) is *extremely* tough to obtain. Rolex does not sell bezels separately, even as a repair part. Bezels are not listed in any Rolex part books, and the only way to get a genuine bezel is from a Rolex watch that has been parted out.

Most people would not know the scarcity of Rolex bezels until one tries to obtain one.

-Sheldon

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by omeglomania

Hello All,
I'm the buyer in this transaction. I am new to the Rolex Forum. I learned of it from Ross(the seller) in his post to sell this watch in one of the two other main WIS forums both of which I am a member. My love of watches spans many years and I understand how transactions between strangers for items of significant value can be a tense and delicate propostion. Especially with all the fakes and scammers out there.
It might be considered naive for me to misinterpret what was actually written and perhaps I should have clarified what was offered before I entered into the transaction. I would think though that the assumption would be those who partake in these forums have a higher knowlege of watches and would not easily interchange the use of the different parts such as bezels and an inserts. Instead I assumed what was written was what was offered. Even more ironic is that the seller lists his occupation as attorney in his profile in another forum. One would also think that if anyone would appreciate the importance of exact wording, it would those who make their living in the specificity of language.
As soon as I received the watch and noticed the discrepancy I contacted Ross explaining the misunderstanding and offered three suggestions. He could procure the bezel and supply it to me, he could refund the mutually agreed upon cost of the bezel, or just refund the entire transaction. I also offered him the option of coming up with his own solution to the dilema.
He chose the refund which I respected and appreciated even though I had hoped we could find a solution in which I could keep the watch. I stressed that it was important that we were both satisfied with the outcome. My postion is that although the money is important, it is the trust and honor that we build in these transactions that ultimately hold the higher value.
My blood does not boil, however I would have hoped that Ross would have opened a private line of communication with me rather than using the energy to post his dissatisfaction in this public forum.
Ross, I will keep the watch. Even though what stated in your ad was not correct I know your intent was not to mislead. I would have been nice though if you would have offered the same consideration.

Welcome aboard!!!!!!Glad it worked out for both of you.

[Gob Bluth]

I don't know why i'm catching grief here. I immediately offered a full refund and never used the buyers name or made any other reference that would give away his identity. I was simply venting.

[GoldenBear]

You did say 'bezels'...

[Gob Bluth]

I did say bezels and I offered to rectify the situation by putting the buyer back in the same position he was in before the transaction. I wasn't going to buy him a $400 - $600 bezel when it is easier/much cheaper to have the watch returned.

[kkwn98]

Originally Posted by Gob Bluth

I don't know why i'm catching grief here. I immediately offered a full refund and NEVER used the buyers name or made any other reference that would give away his identity.

Well, you choose to vent by discussing a private transaction that had "gone bad" (according to you) and made your blood boil, in a "public" forum. Is it really that surprising if, after the other side of the story is disclosed, not all choose to sympathize with you?

Personally, I know neither you nor the buyer. I just found it astonishing that you and, perhaps more so, your erstwhile supporters, felt that the buyer "should have known better" and should have second guessed what was otherwise explicitly stated in your ad, as if he were expected to have E.S.P.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Deep Sea

...Either way, you chose the high road, kept the watch, and stated your side of the story in simple terms without emotion or name-calling. Solid move, in my opinion.

I agree w/ drtooth73. Well said Martin!

[DadsWatch72]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

I agree w/ drtooth73. Well said Martin!

Its a dental conspiracy!!!!

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Its a dental conspiracy!!!!

I just have a feeling that somehow JJ is behind all of this!! JJ is giving everybody bad luck after he sold his Bluesy!!


Allan

[criggs19]

I don't understand something here. I entered a post here a few weeks ago regarding a potential buyer here on TRF misunderstanding what I was selling, thinking I was selling an almost brand new Bluesy here in the TRF sale forum for $3500. I was scolded for posting in the wrong forum and my post was moved. Am I missing something here? Don't get me wrong Gob, I think this thread is perfectly fine for this forum, I just want to understand how these rules work.

Chris

[Tools]

Originally Posted by criggs19

I don't understand something here. I entered a post here a few weeks ago regarding a potential buyer here on TRF misunderstanding what I was selling, thinking I was selling an almost brand new Bluesy here in the TRF sale forum for $3500. I was scolded for posting in the wrong forum and my post was moved. Am I missing something here? Don't get me wrong Gob, I think this thread is perfectly fine for this forum, I just want to understand how these rules work.

Chris

....................There's no confusion.............

This one doesn't belong here either..

There are over 2,000 post a day on this forum and only a few Mods........ We don't catch everything...

........ but I don't see anywhere where you were "scolded"... maybe it's just a perception..

.........

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by omeglomania

Hello All,
I'm the buyer in this transaction. I am new to the Rolex Forum. I learned of it from Ross(the seller)
My blood does not boil, however I would have hoped that Ross would have opened a private line of communication with me rather than using the energy to post his dissatisfaction in this public forum.
Ross, I will keep the watch. Even though what stated in your ad was not correct I know your intent was not to mislead. I would have been nice though if you would have offered the same consideration.

Welcome!
Please donot feel obliged to keep the watch just because of this thread since the seller is willing to refund full which is again excellent on his part. He did make a mistake in the description for which hes willing to refund. On your part if you are not satisfied with the deal you should not feel obliged to keep it just because the matter has become public, and as for providing a new bezel or refunding the cost of the bezel also doesnt say well... Conclusion keep if only if you are really happy with the deal and like the watch... and prove it by starting a new thread with lots of photos!

[shaggy]

Originally Posted by Gob Bluth

I don't know why i'm catching grief here. I immediately offered a full refund and never used the buyers name or made any other reference that would give away his identity. I was simply venting.

i dont see anyone giving you grief i honestly dont
what i do see is that you started a thread asking for comments and thats exactly what you got
whether you like the comments that agree with you and disslike the ones that dont is irrelevent

if you dont want peoples opinions then dont ask for them!

what would be nice is if the seller could wish the buyer to wear the watch in good health and then both parties move on


omeglomania:-
i hope you stick around here as its full of great people
and please
wear that watch in good health with a huge grin on your face



Gob Bluth:-
please also stick around and wear whatever watch you have in good health

[omeglomania]

In the short time here I have learned a tremendous amount about the Rolex World and am impressed with the eagerness and sincerity with which the members share their experiences, passions, and knowlege. This first Rolex purchase has overall been positive and I do love the watch. There are so many beautiful models that I know it will not be the last, and I look forward to future transactions with the members of the Rolex Forum.

[John in MA]

Miscommunication IMO. Seller is more responsible then the buyer. I don't hold the seller at fault as he was venting but feel the deal was misrepresented (even if unintentionally).

I would have assumed a 2nd bezel was included in the deal as well. The main difference is I would have agreed to the return for full refund as there are many GMT's out there for good prices.

[HockeyBrand]

Originally Posted by Gob Bluth

Is it wierd that this made my blood boil? Would anyone else assume that the above FS ad meant you were getting 2 separate bezels? I understand that perhaps I should have written "bezel inserts" and won't ever assume anything like that again.

I read every response and will provide you with my opinion. Yes I would assume that your FS ad meant I was getting 2 separate bezels. That was the way it was worded and thus misinterpreted.

There are many Rolexes for sale in this current 'downward' Economy. I have never bought a preowned, but I am receiving my first next month. And for almost half off the list price. Would that have surprised me last year before the October 2008 World Economic crisis? YES.

Does it surprise me now, with all the head scratching Prices of Daytonas and DD's that I see in the FS Forums. "Buy my watch I need to pay rent!" -- NO.

[Bisquitlips]

Originally Posted by Gob Bluth

So here's the story, I posted the following for sale ad on another watch forum:

For sale is a D Serial (late 2005) GMT Master II in excellent condition with both a pepsi and coke bezel (both bezels in perfect condition). The watch comes with all paperwork, boxes, cloths, bezel protector, booklets, etc. This is the total package as you would receive from an AD. The bracelet is super tight and the crystal is perfect.

I spoke to the buyer on the phone and via pm and he never mentioned anything regarding the bezel inserts or bezel(s). Anyways, he received the watch today and I get a message saying the watch is beautiful but I misrepresented the package (essentially he only bought my GMT II b/c he thought it came with 2 bezels, one with the coke insert and the other with the pepsi insert). I'm refunding the money. Assuming a bezel costs roughly $500-$600+ I feel like it's a little ridiculous for him to have expected 2 separate bezels when I was asking $3800.

Is it wierd that this made my blood boil? Would anyone else assume that the above FS ad meant you were getting 2 separate bezels? I understand that perhaps I should have written "bezel inserts" and won't ever assume anything like that again.

Yes, I saw two bezels in the post!