Help with choosing a PAM

[exp90]

Hi all - have been a long time fan of Panerai and close to pulling the trigger on one - so wanted to ask this friendly group of like-minded Panerai enthusiasts for any opinions, e.g. how they wear, scratch resistance, quality (or problems) of movement etc, any opinions/info very much welcomed. I'm looking at:

• Luminor GMT PAM01441
• Luminor Due PAM01124
• Submersible PAM02973

The GMT is of course bigger, and I've 6.5" wrists, so usually I find 44s a little large. In this case its a matt black case, so may be fine - have yet to try this one on. I tried the Carbotech PAM02661 on previously, but couldn't get past the blue, so forgot the fitment.

The Due series I was set against originally, but the blue dial has really worked on me.

Lastly the Submersible in 42mm is a tank, but fits incredibly well.

The GMT is likely my first choice, but I have little working knowledge of how the movements have proven to be over time - and not 100% clear on the hardiness of the carbon casing.

Please give some points of view! Thanks

[MickCollins1916]

I am glad you’re considering picking up a PAM. I did not do so until later on in my collecting journey, but I am glad I eventually did so.

My first was the 42mm 973 sub, in part because I refused to even try anything bigger on my 7in wrist. I absolutely love that watch still - sold my first, regretted it, picked up another identical one. It’s very legible, comfortable on the wrist, and goes with every strap I’ve tried with it. The OEM rubber options are my favorite and the push button strap change system is easy to use. The stainless bezel will get scratched, but that doesn’t bother me personally, since I wear my watches for whatever I am doing.

The 1441 is killer, but I’ve never owned that or any ceramic PAM. However, I can say that I am glad I eventually tried 44mm PAMs and they are shockingly comfortable on my wrist.

My 1321 has the 1950s case and I really enjoy wearing it, including for travel. Even though it’s not a traditional GMT, tracking 2 time zones has proven useful, 300m wr, strap versatility is endless, and the best thing about that watch is that there is excellent contrast between the hands and the dial. The display is large and legible from all angles, so it’s become a go-to for me.

I’ve never owned any of the due models and likely would not do so unless I ran into one I specifically intended to wear for work under a suit with a configuration I was crazy about at an appallingly low price.

Panerai does have some nice blue dials. There are some blue-dialed GMTs that may answer the mail, like the 1361. Worth trying on, perhaps.



Good luck picking and I hope you enjoy whatever PAM you end up choosing! Please post pics when you grab one.

[watchvert]

Submersible, but PAM02683

[hojlund]

I have three panerai, 524, 1616 and the 1316, of which the carbotech gets most of the wrist time. my wrist size is same as you at 6.5 inches, someone might say it's too big but the most important thing is I love it. of the 3 watches you mentioned, I would recommend the submersible, it's versatile, suitable for different occasions and with a rotatable bezel to play with. the due is my least favorite as I don't like the 30m water resistant and the snap on caseback.

[StanCho]

Keep in mind that there are 44mm Pams and there are 44mm Pams.

This GMT in particular will wear larger due to the casing design, it has a so called 1950 case with longer lugs. The other 44mms that wear 'smaller' are the Bettarini cases, they do not have the 'reg tm' writing on the crown guard (and a different shape of the casing but the crown guard is the first giveaway).

Because of this I chose the Bettarini model, ref 914. Luckily, there are plenty of those out there, current production and past ones as well. It was the original case design back in the 90s, the only one available.

It wears great, very comfortable, especially paired with custom strap. Would buy again, if that is the question. :)

For me the 1st Panerai should be a manual wind with a sandwich dial, less is more concept (only hour and minute hands, as little text as possible). Especially if it is one and done Panerai in the collection. Your preference may be different but now I am looking at getting a second one, maybe, with a blue dial or along the lines...

[exp90]

Thanks for the replies and input! A couple of questions if i may...


The Submersible - is there a profound difference with the SS vs ceramic bezel of PAM02973 and PAM02683? In the UK, theres an £1500 rrp difference. Visually I like both, perhaps the SS (2973) suits more situations better. But understand from above, it scratches...

Equally really like the 1321 with GMT and the power reserve dial. I had been looking previously at the black and blue BiTempos (PAM01360 and PAM01361). The fact more is going on the dial, took away from the size of it - at least for me. I think these are current line 1321s, with a leather strap.

I had been told the Ceramic cases can shatter if dropped - if true, this would rule the PAM01441 out, despite liking it. Assume the Carbotech wouldn't do this, but the current lineup only has one reference.

Thanks for the tip on the casings - is the Luminor the same as the Bettarini case? I see Luminor and Luminor 1950 currently.

I know what is meant by the first Panerai with sandwich dial / less going on, but I find the size of the watch is amplified on me with these ones, and I gravitate towards the other busier 44s or a 42.

[MickCollins1916]

Originally Posted by exp90

Thanks for the replies and input! A couple of questions if i may...


The Submersible - is there a profound difference with the SS vs ceramic bezel of PAM02973 and PAM02683? In the UK, theres an £1500 rrp difference. Visually I like both, perhaps the SS (2973) suits more situations better. But understand from above, it scratches...

Equally really like the 1321 with GMT and the power reserve dial. I had been looking previously at the black and blue BiTempos (PAM01360 and PAM01361). The fact more is going on the dial, took away from the size of it - at least for me. I think these are current line 1321s, with a leather strap.

I had been told the Ceramic cases can shatter if dropped - if true, this would rule the PAM01441 out, despite liking it. Assume the Carbotech wouldn't do this, but the current lineup only has one reference.

Thanks for the tip on the casings - is the Luminor the same as the Bettarini case? I see Luminor and Luminor 1950 currently.

I know what is meant by the first Panerai with sandwich dial / less going on, but I find the size of the watch is amplified on me with these ones, and I gravitate towards the other busier 44s or a 42.

With respect to the SS vs ceramic bezels on the sub models, the ceramic won’t scratch. I chose the stainless on the 973 and liked it enough to pick up a 1223 down the road as well. YMMV.

I have a 915 with the Bettarini case - it’s a hand-crank luminor and it sits very flat on my wrist. Great watch.

The 1321 is also a luminor but has the 1950s case. It sits a little higher, but very comfortably for me as well. It’s def a little thicker because of GMT and PR complications. I was initially opposed to the 1321 bc of the PR on the dial, but I ended up liking it a lot - since it’s useful info, and its presence precluded an extra line of text that’s on the 1320 - the word “automatic.”

I personally like the blue and black bi-tempo GMTs a lot. Busy dials, yes, but the minute track makes a lot of sense on a dual time zone watch. The PR indicator disappears for me visually when wearing my 1321, I don’t mind it at all.

[exp90]

Thanks.

I'm finding the £1500 hard to justify between the SS and Ceramic bezel. So would likely go for the 2973, of the two. The Blanco variant is lovely, have tried that on in the past too. But I'm awaiting an Exp2 Polar, so have the white dial covered.

The 915 is gorgeous - the tan coloured markers especially. In the ME I tried on a titanium variant of it - but don't know the reference number.

Having lost sleep last night trawling through this sub forum - I realised that 2 styles stand out in addition to the above.
- Ceramic variants like the Luminor 360 or Radomir 612
- Titanium Luminors like the 176 or 177

[exp90]

For the past references, do folks prefer the ETA over in-house movements? If so, is it due to reliability or cost/simplicity of service?

Even though there are what seems like hundreds of similar Panerais, there is a learning curve to get on top of with them, to make good selection choices!

[opawlows]

Originally Posted by exp90

Thanks.

I'm finding the £1500 hard to justify between the SS and Ceramic bezel. So would likely go for the 2973, of the two. The Blanco variant is lovely, have tried that on in the past too. But I'm awaiting an Exp2 Polar, so have the white dial covered.

The 915 is gorgeous - the tan coloured markers especially. In the ME I tried on a titanium variant of it - but don't know the reference number.

Having lost sleep last night trawling through this sub forum - I realised that 2 styles stand out in addition to the above.
- Ceramic variants like the Luminor 360 or Radomir 612
- Titanium Luminors like the 176 or 177

If you like the 915 and the 176, you may like the 562, which has the 8 day power reserve, titanium case and a tobacco brown dial.

The 360 is PVD not ceramic, not sure if that changes anything for you and is a little bit pricier as it was a special edition for the 10th anniversary of the Paneristi.com community.

[exp90]

Thanks for the tips!

I've narrowed down the list to:
- Luminor 176 Ti, or 915, or 562
- Luminor 360 , or Radiomir 292
- Sub 2793

[opawlows]

From your list my choice would be the 176 for the first. Considered to be one of the quintessential PAMs.

Recently picked up a 1350 while at the Boutique in Firenze and have found it to be extremely comfortable. It would be the same size as the 292 you listed. Wanted a 45mm Radiomir as I didn't have one in my collection.

I had a 42mm sub but wore it so infrequently. Gave it to my wife to wear but she prefers her 38mm Due so eventually moved it towards another piece.

[exp90]

Originally Posted by opawlows

From your list my choice would be the 176 for the first. Considered to be one of the quintessential PAMs.

Recently picked up a 1350 while at the Boutique in Firenze and have found it to be extremely comfortable. It would be the same size as the 292 you listed. Wanted a 45mm Radiomir as I didn't have one in my collection.

I had a 42mm sub but wore it so infrequently. Gave it to my wife to wear but she prefers her 38mm Due so eventually moved it towards another piece.

Thanks - I am thinking the same, either the 176 or 177. Not yet sure if I would feel a loss for seeing movement via the seconds hand.

Great find/pick. Like you, I will likely get a Radiomir after the Luminor - and right now, the 292 or 612 are my favourites. How do you find the wires rather than lugs and pin - no issues?

[opawlows]

I am partial towards base dials as the majority of my PAMs have always been that and I find the dial very balanced and visually appealing without the seconds hand. But that's just me! Have a 111 still in the collection and my first PAM was a 118, which is a titanium model with tobacco dial and seconds hand. Moved the 118 for a Pre A 002 and from there have pretty much always gravitated towards base dials. Regrettably sold the Pre A a few years back so have been casually looking for a good example to add back to my collection.

Haven't had to change the strap on the Rad as of yet. Had them swap straps for me at the boutique to the one with the Firenze logo on the side before we left.

Wanted that strap to mark the occasion as the watch was a wedding gift from my wife. We had just been married the week before in Cortina in the Dolomites.

[exp90]

Congrats on the past wedding and gift!

The base dials (seems to be logo and non-logo variants) are aesthetically pleasing. The seconds hand doesn't disturb that too much, though lume IMO is nicest in the 3 6 9 12 arrangement. After the original post and a good period of reading/searching - I've opted against the power reserve, gmt in favour of the simpler forms. Ive an Exp2 coming, that'll be the GMT for me.

Until I go try them all on, it's probably like this: 176 > 177 > 914/5 > 292 > 360

[opawlows]

Originally Posted by exp90

Congrats on the past wedding and gift!

The base dials (seems to be logo and non-logo variants) are aesthetically pleasing. The seconds hand doesn't disturb that too much, though lume IMO is nicest in the 3 6 9 12 arrangement. After the original post and a good period of reading/searching - I've opted against the power reserve, gmt in favour of the simpler forms. Ive an Exp2 coming, that'll be the GMT for me.

Until I go try them all on, it's probably like this: 176 > 177 > 914/5 > 292 > 360

Appreciate the congrats, the wedding was actually at the end of June, so very recent!

Sounds like you have a good plan for finding the right one for you. It's a fun journey!

Can't wait to hear what you decide on

[exp90]

Thanks! Always fun getting to grips like a brand you’re excited about.

One question I have is - the GMTs like the 1441 don’t seem to have an AM/PM/24h indication, am I misunderstanding? Take the image in the original post showing the 1441, how is the 12h segment or 24h indicated? Is it just imprecise and approximate, based on each 4h quadrant?

[exp90]

I've located a 177 in Excellent condition - no service history, 2011, £4k GBP, box/papers, rubber and leather strap (original crocodile?). Is this a reasonable price?

[opawlows]

In doing a quick conversion exchange, thats about what they are going for in my area as well. I'm sure there is a little wiggle room for you to pick it up at a better price. Find out what a service would cost and try and negotiate that into the discount.

[Gerry62]

Originally Posted by exp90

I've located a 177 in Excellent condition - no service history, 2011, £4k GBP, box/papers, rubber and leather strap (original crocodile?). Is this a reasonable price?

177 Luminor Marina had years ago

they are not easy to find

stunning



NY 2013

[exp90]

Originally Posted by opawlows

In doing a quick conversion exchange, thats about what they are going for in my area as well. I'm sure there is a little wiggle room for you to pick it up at a better price. Find out what a service would cost and try and negotiate that into the discount.

Thanks for confirming and great call 🙌

[exp90]

Originally Posted by Gerry62

177 Luminor Marina had years ago

they are not easy to find

stunning



NY 2013

Totally agree!