Really bad experience with Bucher TimeMachine in NYC

[SMD]

Originally Posted by leoliang1990

By shipping it out of state (I live in NJ), it could safe me some sales tax.

Taxes don’t work like that. You still owe the tax, just to Nj.

[-dustin]

Originally Posted by bay_area_kid

Let's use some common sense, please.

When it's a Saturday and someone says something can be delivered the "next day", it usually means the next business day. I've worked in car sales, luxury retail, construction, and now in tech. Everyone knows shipping is limited on Saturdays and hardly anything gets shipped on Sundays.

So when the Bucherer salesperson said "next day" on a Saturday, it doesn't make sense to literally interpret it as the watch getting delivered the very next day, which is Sunday.

Ok. Common sense says “don’t say next day”. If you’ve been in high end sales, I assume you also know that you have to lay everything out very clearly.

Regardless, doesn’t matter, because it wasn’t there Tuesday, either. Which would have been the 2nd business day.

You work at Bucherer or something?

[huncho]

Originally Posted by SMD

Taxes don’t work like that. You still owe the tax, just to Nj.

lmao, him getting into this situation because he was trying to commit tax fraud makes it even better

[leoliang1990]

Originally Posted by SMD

Taxes don’t work like that. You still owe the tax, just to Nj.

You are a such good citizen. I assume you never purchase in the tax-free state or out of country to save the sales tax.
I respect you.

[bay_area_kid]

Originally Posted by -dustin

Ok. Common sense says “don’t say next day”. If you’ve been in high end sales, I assume you also know that you have to lay everything out very clearly.

Regardless, doesn’t matter, because it wasn’t there Tuesday, either. Which would have been the 2nd business day.

Seems like you and I have very different definitions of common sense.

I've been in high end sales before:

• prominent high-end retail shop in Stanford Shopping center early in my career
• broker of high-end JDM automobiles mid career
• enterprise sales at a well-known tech company today

Not once did we ever need to "to lay everything out very clearly" when dealing with high-end clientele when talking about "days".

We worked under the assumption that our high-end clients would be experienced enough in the world of business that we wouldn't need to spell out the word "business" when talking about the ETA (in days) of something.

And in almost 30 years of working in that world, I've never had a high-end client confuse "calendar days" with "business days".

So yes, I repeat again: when someone mentions "next day" in a business transaction, it always implies "next business day".

Originally Posted by -dustin

You work at Bucherer or something?

I thought we're having a logical, civil discussion so not sure why you would even ask that question unless that's your attempt at some snark.

[leoliang1990]

I got back a response from the Senior Director of Bucherer and I accept their apology. If one still wants to speak for them, feel free.

```
Late last week I spoke with a couple of members of the management team at the Bucherer 1888 TimeMachine and reviewed the history of the tracking number with UPS. Without question, this process should not have taken 5 weeks to resolve and I am very sorry for the inconvenience this caused you, especially with your being outside of the country during this timeframe.

I will be making some recommendations to the management team at the store regarding steps that can be taken in the future to avoid this type of situation. For your information, some of these recommendations include details around the shipping service level with UPS, the Tourneau|Bucherer internal process for filing a shipping loss report, setting up a cadence of email updates regarding the status of a pending investigation and validation of a UPS return to sender request. Upon reviewing these details with regards to your specific transaction, I would agree with you that the communication and follow-through were not at the level that was needed and you should not have had to wait more than a month for a refund of a purchase that you never received.

Once again, I would like to apologize on behalf of our Company for this unpleasant experience. This should have been a seamless transaction and delivery for you, but we did not meet those expectations.
```

Let's call it a day. Life has to move on.

I got my grail watch (116503-0011 dimond eye) on Bob's and their delivery requires me signing the package with my ID presented.

[bay_area_kid]

Great update!

Interesting they mentioned "details around the shipping service level with UPS". I think the timing (ie. the watch being bought on a Saturday) and SLO/SLA on the UPS side are the roots of this problem.

Bucherer sent the item to UPS on Monday so UPS should've delivered it on Tuesday at the latest.

Yes, Bucherer dropped the ball on subsequent communications and follow ups but I believe those are secondary. If UPS met SLA then there wouldn't even be a need for Bucherer to do follow ups and this post wouldn't even exist :)

[BillA]

Originally Posted by SMD

Taxes don’t work like that. You still owe the tax, just to Nj.

Yeah right, I am sure you pay your out of state taxes to the state.

[L_S_SHOE]

We are all dumber for having read this post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SMD]

Originally Posted by leoliang1990

You are a such good citizen. I assume you never purchase in the tax-free state or out of country to save the sales tax.
I respect you.

If I need to save the sales tax I can’t afford it. Same with cars - if I have to register in Montana I can’t afford the car.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by BillA

Yeah right, I am sure you pay your out of state taxes to the state.

Believe what you want. I have paid sales tax on all my watches, even the six figure ones. I even pay it on my cars. Weird huh.

[Billyrolls]

Originally Posted by SMD

Believe what you want. I have paid sales tax on all my watches, even the six figure ones. I even pay it on my cars. Weird huh.

It is weird if you know anything about tax planning. You would be surprised at how many people who live in NJ and NY have PO boxes in NH, and then purchase watches, jewelry, furs, and 10-figue artwork from Sotheby's and have it shipped to NH where they pay a sales tax rate of 0%.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Billyrolls

It is weird if you know anything about tax planning. You would be surprised at how many people who live in NJ and NY have PO boxes in NH, and then purchase watches, jewelry, furs, and 10-figue artwork from Sotheby's and have it shipped to NH where they pay a sales tax rate of 0%.

Difference between planning and fraud. As soon as you bring it home to where you live you owe use tax. This is the case no matter where you ship it first. This is also the case for cars registered to a Montana LLC. If the car is in a state for more than 30-60 days, depends on the state, it must be registered in that state. And at that point sales tax is due. But if you knew anything about use taxes you would know this.

[Billyrolls]

Originally Posted by SMD

Difference between planning and fraud. As soon as you bring it home to where you live you owe use tax. This is the case no matter where you ship it first. This is also the case for cars registered to a Montana LLC. If the car is in a state for more than 30-60 days, depends on the state, it must be registered in that state. And at that point sales tax is due. But if you knew anything about use taxes you would know this.

I didn't mention cars--you did--I understand the unique registration requirement. Nobody is required to register a watch, ring or fur at DMV.

And if you understand the gifting laws in your home state, along with timing/location of the vehicle transaction, there's absolutely no need for a Montana LLC (or a Delaware LLC)

Fraud? How about reality. Next time you see someone in a $50 million yacht floating around the Hamptons, or a $100 million private jet hangared at Stewart Airport---ask them if they paid NYS sales tax. And ask them if they registered the vessel in Montana

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Billyrolls

I didn't mention cars--you did--I understand the unique registration requirement. Nobody is required to register a watch, ring or fur at DMV.

And if you understand the gifting laws in your home state, along with timing/location of the vehicle transaction, there's absolutely no need for a Montana LLC (or a Delaware LLC)

Fraud? How about reality. Next time you see someone in a $50 million yacht floating around the Hamptons, or a $100 million private jet hangared at Stewart Airport---ask them if they paid NYS sales tax. And ask them if they registered the vessel in Montana

Sending a watch to New Hampshire, bringing it back to NJ or NY or wherever (that has a state tax), is tax fraud for which there is no statute of limitations. I am well aware you are not required to register these items. If you do get caught, usually in connection with an audit (people with money get audited regularly), this will be found. I have been through several state tax audits and they are very thorough. For example, they will check your insurance to see what is listed and then compare to see if tax has been paid. So as long as you never get audited you may never get caught. If you do get audited it will be very painful.

You started this by saying it is weird to pay a use tax if you know anything about tax planning. Tell me, how can you legally avoid the use tax? Or is the argument that you aren't going to get caught, which is many things, but legal tax planning is not one of them.

As for boats and planes, completely irrelevant to use taxes.

[Billyrolls]

Originally Posted by SMD

You started this by saying it is weird to pay a use tax if you know anything about tax planning. Tell me, how can you legally avoid the use tax? Or is the argument that you aren't going to get caught, which is many things, but legal tax planning is not one of them.

As for boats and planes, completely irrelevant to use taxes.

Yes, you can legally avoid the use tax. The sales tax is a transaction tax, and you can restructure the elements of the transaction. Done all the time, and sometimes very creatively.

And boats and planes are not irrelevant to the use tax. If you purchase either without payment of the NY sales tax, and you are a NY resident, and dock or hangar the vessel in NY, then you have use in the state (and probably a third-party paper trail of that use). Whether or not you have exposure to audit liability will ultimately depend on how the transaction was structured.

[NachoNeal]

Originally Posted by bay_area_kid

Let's use some common sense, please...

kettle by Nacho Neal, on Flickr

[BillA]

OP, did you get your money back?
Also don't go the CPO route, CPO = ripoff.
good luck

[FrankNYC]

Originally Posted by SMD

Sorry, this is where you lost me:

"I placed an order in-store at Bucherer TimeMachine for a $20,000 Rolex Daytona. I was told it could be delivered to my NJ address the next day."

Don't believe for a second you walked in and ordered this watch. Whole story is suspect to say the least.

Not defending OP, just a commentary on the next day delivery to NJ.... this is common practice here in New York to avoid the sales tax. Every watch I've bought I had shipped to a friend's house in New Jersey next day, never with any issues. On a 20k watch that would have been $1,700+ in NY sales tax.

A side question is do you go through all this hassle to save $1,700? or do you just eat it and walk out of the store with the product.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Andad

I don’t see how your thread can help anyone?

More evidence that UPS should never ever be used for shipping a watch. Good luck getting them to pay off on the insurance. There are horror stories all over the internet regarding claim issues with UPS. Also, almost all UPS centers are privately owned. They do not care to pay off on claims.

Use FedEx overnight to a FedEx facility or USPS registered insured. And never ever ship to an apartment... period.....