ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
13 October 2024, 01:49 PM | #1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
18238: "T Swiss Made T" no lume dial?
I'm not on the market for this watch but it popped up in my EBay feed and something caught my eye: It appears to have no lume, and also bears the "T Swiss Made T" marking.
Can anyone explain? Were they for the Japanese market? This is just my idle curiosity. (Admittedly, I really like the look and the clean gaps.) |
13 October 2024, 01:59 PM | #2 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,289
|
"No lume" dials with "T" markings are a thing. Without photos, we can't say much about the specific watch you're referring to.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG |
13 October 2024, 02:07 PM | #3 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Hobart
Posts: 1,030
|
It looks like the lume markers are present - they are just almost washed out be the white of the dial and the photo.
__________________
2 FA Enabled |
13 October 2024, 02:17 PM | #4 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
|
|
13 October 2024, 02:18 PM | #5 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Hobart
Posts: 1,030
|
Quote:
It’s there - look at the end of the baton above the V a little lume plot. Same at the end of every baton. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2 FA Enabled |
|
13 October 2024, 02:20 PM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Added an image. What's the backstory on the no lume dials with "T" markings? Were they only made for a certain period in history, or are they still available as service dials?
|
13 October 2024, 02:31 PM | #7 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
Yeah. Are there gold baton dials like that that never had lume? I really like the look. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
13 October 2024, 03:06 PM | #8 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2021
Real Name: Keith
Location: California
Watch: 60s to 90s
Posts: 1,373
|
Dial has very white lume that’s hard to see.
But T SWISS T or T SWISS MADE T dials exist with or without lume on the dial, but typically will have lume hands.
__________________
Just an admirer/enthusiast of vintage Rolex/Heuer/Zenith/Breitling/Hamilton watches since the 80’s… Ex—https://imgur.com/FnO9FRy — ”I Do Love The Details, But I Can Choose If I Accept The Flaws…” |
13 October 2024, 03:16 PM | #9 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
Thanks. Was this random, or were the lume-less T dials sold for specific time periods and/or in specific markets? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
13 October 2024, 03:17 PM | #10 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Hobart
Posts: 1,030
|
Quote:
Japan doesn’t like tritium - so some markets definitely had dials made for those type of restrictions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
2 FA Enabled |
|
13 October 2024, 03:58 PM | #11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Uk
Watch: RolexGMT/Tudor7928
Posts: 4,182
|
|
13 October 2024, 06:24 PM | #12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Barcelona, Spain
Watch: Rolex, Tudor, etc
Posts: 620
|
Retouching the image you can almost appreciate
|
13 October 2024, 06:30 PM | #13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,832
|
Indeed, Japan market Early Manual Wind Daytonas are lumeless ..which freaks out some less clued-up collectors ;-)
__________________
Thieves and fools and long travelled soldiers, A candid light exposes their homes. Human falter, people bellowed from their homes. And houses, there's fools and long reigning pharaohs. IT BITES - Yellow Christian |
13 October 2024, 06:42 PM | #14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,832
|
The '238 was produced 1988 to 2000. I'm not an expert on DD as Miami Clay is, but I wonder if this is a 99/00 or a service dial (tritinova in stock from 00-06 on many low turnover 't' stamped service dials - the latest I had was a 16760 dial changed to t25 tritinova 3/9/06) as it looks like a tritinova to me.
__________________
Thieves and fools and long travelled soldiers, A candid light exposes their homes. Human falter, people bellowed from their homes. And houses, there's fools and long reigning pharaohs. IT BITES - Yellow Christian |
13 October 2024, 11:23 PM | #15 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Matt
Location: Wine Country, Ca
Posts: 5,998
|
Day Date stone dials usually said T SWISS T without having lume. It was common. The dials were printed first before it was decided what the setup for the watch would be.
__________________
TRF Member 11738 |
14 October 2024, 04:23 AM | #16 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
|
Looks like you’ve gotten good answers above already. As the dial lume and hands are applied last, Rolex may not yet know, at the time when the dial text is stamped with the text tampon, whether a particular piece will have dial lume or lumed hands applied later..
Stone and wood DD dials usually had no dial lume, and gem-set DD dials only sometimes did. It is thought that many no-lume DDs were for the Japanese market, which was (quite understandably!) leery about any possible radiation. (One circumstance where you can *know* there has been some part-swapping going on is when you see a piece with lume on the dial, but no-lume hands.) I believe TuRo may be right that the eBay one in the photo is a transitional tritinova service dial (a UV light could probably give a clearer answer). There are also quite a few other, non-stone baton dials which never had lume. E.g., note this WG Wide Boy 1803/9 below, which is marked TST, but has no lume on either the dial or WB hands. TomWam, there is a certain “pics or it didn’t happen” sentiment here, so let us SEE your new 18238! . |
14 October 2024, 05:52 AM | #17 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
Here's mine: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
14 October 2024, 06:14 AM | #18 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,289
|
That appears to have lume on both dial and hands.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG |
14 October 2024, 06:17 AM | #19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
|
14 October 2024, 06:21 AM | #20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: EARTH
Watch: What is "watch"?
Posts: 1,347
|
All dials of the tritium era, whether or not lume is present, are marked “T”. Totally normal as pointed out.
__________________
“UNpolished or I’m not interested” 😎 2FA Enabled |
14 October 2024, 06:23 AM | #21 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,319
|
There were definitely inconsistencies with the use of tritium and the lower dial markings on the 18038 and 18238 Day-Date dials. The pyramid dials did not have tritium and were marked SWISS MADE.
Below are two examples. One from 1984 and one from 1992.
__________________
Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
14 October 2024, 07:33 AM | #22 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
|
Congratulations! That looks like a beauty.
Loose white 5-digit DD dials are not hard to find (though no-lume ones are certainly more scarce). Dials for 18038s and 118238s will also fit your 18238 - You could pick up a white dial and have it swapped at any point down the road, if you like … |
14 October 2024, 08:58 AM | #23 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: SF Bay Area (US)
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 71
|
Quote:
|
|
14 October 2024, 10:26 AM | #24 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
|
eBay is chock full of aftermarket, repainted, and relumed dials, and there are some dials offered for the 18038s and 118238s which were not available on yours when it was new.
If it matters to you that it be both factory original and “period correct” for a 18238, post pics or links to any you’re considering, so the actual experts here can let you know. It’s also worth looking at the parts/accessories listings both here on TRF and on C24. |
15 October 2024, 01:27 PM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Darien, CT
Posts: 333
|
I have found that any dial that was without lume should also have hands without lume. If the hands have lume so should the dial...
|
15 October 2024, 10:31 PM | #26 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,289
|
Quote:
The reverse is certainly true, however. A lumed dial would make no sense with un-lumed hands.
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG |
|
15 October 2024, 10:59 PM | #27 |
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Matt
Location: Wine Country, Ca
Posts: 5,998
|
I have seen all combinations and because of the passage of time, there could be instances of hand changes, so unless you are the original owner, who know if your watch is in its original factory configuration.
__________________
TRF Member 11738 |
15 October 2024, 11:00 PM | #28 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: 33139/95460
Posts: 1,413
|
Quote:
In any event, before 2000 I expect most ADs would’ve been delighted to put lumed hands on any brand new DD, in order to make the sale. (This just illustrates that, for almost every “rule” regarding vintage Rolex, there are exceptions, and exceptions to those exceptions, ad infinitum!) |
|
16 October 2024, 11:37 AM | #29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Real Name: David
Location: australia
Posts: 20,216
|
As above this is a well documented inconsistency
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
watches many |
18 October 2024, 03:50 AM | #30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Huntsville, AL
Watch: BB58 925, OP39, DD
Posts: 76
|
Most likely the photo was filtered/post-processed to enhance the “whiteness” of the dial…washing out the lume plots, by a seller more interested in making as “pretty picture” presentation as possible, and not reflection of actual/collectability-related condition. It will almost certainly look radically different in real life or in unfiltered, natural light photos…
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.