Why won't RSC do a S/N check?

[Zirotti]

I just called the Dallas RSC and asked if they could verify a serial number for me and she flat out told me that I could send it in for service but they won't verify a serial number. She said "Rolex is in the business of selling and servicing watches" and they won't do anything unless I send it in. So basically, I can go pound sand if I don't buy a new watch from an AD.

I could see if I am asking for something for free but all I want them to do was verify a serial number. I am going to meet the seller at an AD but I will be honest, I don't trust the judgement of 90% of the salespeople at an AD.

What is my best recourse to verify authenticity at the point of sale, if the tranaction is to be done at an AD?

[BASSETHOUNDS]

That seems to be the norm at all RSC . You were able to call in or fax a serial in the old day and they would check it out . I recently went to Rolex France in Paris to have a 116520 checked with a friend of mine that had just bought it in the States . Were they used to do the verification on the spot , they now want you to leave the watch and it can take up to 10 days before they give you a result . It also used to be free , and that now costs 90 euro plus VAT .

[Zirotti]

Wow. Unreal. I guess I am used to Breitling and Omega who have done it no problem for me.

[Tools]

If all you had to do was call up to see if a watch was stolen/fraudulent, they would never recover any stolen/fraudulent watches.........

You complain because you are trying to get a verification/authentication for free and with little effort or research on your part, but you would be singing their praises if they recovered your lost or stolen watch.....

[Zirotti]

Like I said, explain to me how I can get a guaruntee of authenticity PRIOR to purchase? Rolex said to send the watch in to them. How am I supposed to send a watch in I don't own? Does the burden lie on the buyer or seller?

And Tools, chill. It's just a watch forum :)

[moviefreak]

Authenticity... just opening the watch and have it inspected at an AD... if they can do it on the spot... now if you do not own it.. get together with the seller and have it checked.
Even if the seller tells you it is authentic.. the "appraisal" or authentication papers could be fake.
If you need to authenticate and you want to check prior to purchase, only option is go with seller to have it checked (you pay for this service)... and the money could be counted towards the purchase if you finally buy it. It should be no more than 50usd.

[Zirotti]

Thanks moviefreak.

Here is my thought process on calling into RSC...

If I call in to verify a serial chances are I am not the owner. If RSC tells me the watch is stolen, you can believe I will turn over the information of the seller. Even if an AD tells me the watch is authentic, if I send the watch into RSC AFTER I buy it and it still turns out to be stolen, I am up a creek.

The only thing Rolex is doing is forcing you to buy new from an AD, which I can obviously understand why. But they are providing unnecessary roadblocks to folks on the second hand market. In all honesty, how much time is spent verifying a serial?

Other watch companies do this so why not Rolex. This is akin to not being able to run a Carfax until after I buy it.

Can an AD verify that a watch is stolen!

[arabesque]

Therein lies the risk of buying preowned..

If your concern is the risk of buying stolen goods, one way to make sure is buy from the original owner who still has the original sales invoice and make him sign a Bill of Sale with seller in tow have it notarized.

If your concern is if everything is factory original, then ask seller to make and consumate sale after RSC accepts watch for service.

IMO, buying from a reputable Seller saves some of the worries.

[newmedia]

if your into buying used watches , I would recommend very strongly invest in case opener and few tools and nice scope, after all we are talking about few thousand dollars in jewelry.

[moviefreak]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Thanks moviefreak.

Here is my thought process on calling into RSC...

If I call in to verify a serial chances are I am not the owner. If RSC tells me the watch is stolen, you can believe I will turn over the information of the seller. Even if an AD tells me the watch is authentic, if I send the watch into RSC AFTER I buy it and it still turns out to be stolen, I am up a creek.

The only thing Rolex is doing is forcing you to buy new from an AD, which I can obviously understand why. But they are providing unnecessary roadblocks to folks on the second hand market. In all honesty, how much time is spent verifying a serial?

Other watch companies do this so why not Rolex. This is akin to not being able to run a Carfax until after I buy it.

Can an AD verify that a watch is stolen!

as stated before.. Rolex will do this so you HAVE to send them the watch.. this way if it is stolen they can recover it.. I have heard stories of watches that were recovered 6 years after they were stolen.. how.. the guy who bought the watch without knowing it was stolen, just sends it for service and then they catch it at RSC.
A stolen watch can travel many miles, they can be found in another continent... but as long as Rolex keeps the serial number policy, some of them, not all will be recovered and delivered to the real owner.

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Like I said, explain to me how I can get a guaruntee of authenticity PRIOR to purchase? Rolex said to send the watch in to them. How am I supposed to send a watch in I don't own? Does the burden lie on the buyer or seller?

And Tools, chill. It's just a watch forum :)

I would try to answer your question but from this reply, you don't deserve it.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I would try to answer your question but from this reply, you don't deserve it.

Look at Tools' signature before you jump all over someone.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by newmedia

if your into buying used watches , I would recommend very strongly invest in case opener and few tools and nice scope, after all we are talking about few thousand dollars in jewelry.

Very sound advice. Thanks!

[mrh1797]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Very sound advice. Thanks!

How is cracking open a case going to tell you if it is stolen??? Secondly, why would you even run the risk of damaging the movement or creating an improper seal.

Buy from reputable people and minimize risk or buy from AD...Those are the only two options really...

[newmedia]

I been buying used watches past 18 month, I always asked sellers if they are original owners , most of them are not, do they know the history of the watch, most do not, when was it serviced, most have no idea.

I have nice collection of gaskets and tools , I have bought and sold more than 60 used watches, for me its good idea to have these tools if your into this hobby.

[faingator]

Buying used carries risk. Mitigate most of the risk by buying from a trust seller or AD.

[htc8p]

have seller bring it to a RSC if they confiscate it then its stolen. both buyer and seller share the cost in having it serviced.

if seller doesnt want that then he/she has something to hide

[karmatp]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Look at Tools' signature before you jump all over someone.

I'm not jumping on anyone, and yes, I am well aware of Larry's signature. It was your overall tone in your reply that I was refering to.

Quote:

Like I said, explain to me how I can get a guaruntee of authenticity PRIOR to purchase?

I'm sure you can understand that after someone gives some advice, then that reply gets quoted and you start off your reply like this, it could be taken the way I took it. It sounded very disrespectful to me, and a solid guy like Larry deserves much more.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by karmatp

I'm not jumping on anyone, and yes, I am well aware of Larry's signature. It was your overall tone in your reply that I was refering to.

Quote:

Like I said, explain to me how I can get a guaruntee of authenticity PRIOR to purchase?

I'm sure you can understand that after someone gives some advice, then that reply gets quoted and you start off your reply like this, it could be taken the way I took it. It sounded very disrespectful to me, and a solid guy like Larry deserves much more.

Regardless of what you thought, my original post asked for advice on how to guarantee the authenticity of a second-hand watch. Larry then sarcastically responded that I was trying to get "something for free with little/no effort" which was completely off base and didn't answer my original question. Hence my reply, also being sarcastic in nature.

Since then, my original question has already been answered. I thank you for your feedback.

[PeteNYC13]

If you even have doubts about the authenticity of the watch, why buy it?
I have no issue with some of the GREAT sellers on here but I just read that 70% + of the watches sold on the internet are fake (Brietling says 90% right on thier home page). Rolex isn't about to go out and start varifying serial numbers, history etc, for no charge. This is not a profit center for them and does nothing to add to the "Brand". By having such tight restrictions, Rolexes become keep sakes, are limited to AD's and a few reputable second hand sellers and maintain "Brand" value.
I am a fan of AD's, I wouldn't buy a Porsche off of a random car lot unless I knew the history of the car and the sales person (very, very, very well), I like the piece of mind I get from buying an expensive (it's all relative but it's expensive to me) piece of Jewelry from someone that I can go back to with issues. Again, if there is a particular watch I want and can't get from anyone but one or two of the reputable guys on here, I would not hesitate. BUT, what gets me is the attitude that Rolex or the AD's owe us something when in all honety, the grey market, ebay, Frankenwatches etc. are likely hurting them and their "Brand".

This isn't a shot at the OP, it's more of a vent that he summoned from me... I guess it answers the OP's question, how to determine if it is authentic and not stolen, buy from an AD or buy the SELLER!

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts,
-Pete

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Regardless of what you thought, my original post asked for advice on how to guarantee the authenticity of a second-hand watch. Larry then sarcastically responded that I was trying to get "something for free with little/no effort" which was completely off base and didn't answer my original question. Hence my reply, also being sarcastic in nature.

Since then, my original question has already been answered. I thank you for your feedback.

I wasn't being sarcastic........ I was making a statement that you were trying to get verification or authentication with a phonecall and simply giving Rolex a serial number - exactly what you stated you did......... However, it's something that simply cannot be done...

I will agree though, your reply was sarcastic............ at that point I generally cease any further attempt to help. Actually, I generally refrain from any further posts at all; but here I don't want to see Trevor escalate the issue any further..

[Zirotti]

Pete, I don't have any doubts, it was more a general question about buying watches second-hand. The watch I am purchasing is a watch that is no longer in production.

I never had any expectation that Rolex or an AD would inspect, service or appraise the watch for free. I simply wanted to know if a serial number was legit or not. Since it was never an issue with other watch companies, I was taken aback that Rolex refused. That was the point I was making.

And I think the point about ADs is a subjective one. Some people will gladly pay a premium for what they feel is a service provided by an AD. I personally, have never had a "need" for said service, and if I can put a few bucks back into my own pocket by buying second-hand, than I will do so.

Buying anything second-hand inherently involves risk, which I understand. And you can mitigate that risk by buying from a trusted seller with proven feedback, which I normally do. In this case however, I am going a bit outside of my comfort zone and was asking for constructive feedback.

I thank those that did take the time to help a brother out. :)

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by PeteNYC13

If you even have doubts about the authenticity of the watch, why buy it?
I have no issue with some of the GREAT sellers on here but I just read that 70% + of the watches sold on the internet are fake (Brietling says 90% right on thier home page). Rolex isn't about to go out and start varifying serial numbers, history etc, for no charge. This is not a profit center for them and does nothing to add to the "Brand". By having such tight restrictions, Rolexes become keep sakes, are limited to AD's and a few reputable second hand sellers and maintain "Brand" value.
I am a fan of AD's, I wouldn't buy a Porsche off of a random car lot unless I knew the history of the car and the sales person (very, very, very well), I like the piece of mind I get from buying an expensive (it's all relative but it's expensive to me) piece of Jewelry from someone that I can go back to with issues. Again, if there is a particular watch I want and can't get from anyone but one or two of the reputable guys on here, I would not hesitate. BUT, what gets me is the attitude that Rolex or the AD's owe us something when in all honety, the grey market, ebay, Frankenwatches etc. are likely hurting them and their "Brand".

This isn't a shot at the OP, it's more of a vent that he summoned from me... I guess it answers the OP's question, how to determine if it is authentic and not stolen, buy from an AD or buy the SELLER!

Thanks for letting me share my thoughts,
-Pete

I guess it is good that there are all different types of people here on TRF. I don't think that I will EVER buy a Rolex off Ebay, but I will also NEVER buy another Rolex from an AD. Absolutely not worth the 40% mark-up for me.

I have 8 Rolexes and only one of them is from an AD.

I'll buy from DavidSW ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!!!

[submariner16610]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Like I said, explain to me how I can get a guaruntee of authenticity PRIOR to purchase? Rolex said to send the watch in to them. How am I supposed to send a watch in I don't own? Does the burden lie on the buyer or seller?

And Tools, chill. It's just a watch forum :)

just bring it to any authorized dealer and have them check it..they should know that..

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by submariner16610

just bring it to any authorized dealer and have them check it..they should know that..

That's what the plan is. I was skeptical because when I sold my Deepsea last week, I met the buyer at an AD in Chicago. All this chick did was pick it up, look at it for two seconds and tell the buyer "yeah, it looks good to me". There was no way she would have known if it wasn't legit.

Either way, all is good and I appreciate the feedback.

[CaveDiver]

I would think you would be better off with an experienced watchmaker than some sales person at an AD.
Also, you might try calling an RSC and ask if they serviced the watch and give them the SN and go from there.

[submariner16610]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

That's what the plan is. I was skeptical because when I sold my Deepsea last week, I met the buyer at an AD in Chicago. All this chick did was pick it up, look at it for two seconds and tell the buyer "yeah, it looks good to me". There was no way she would have known if it wasn't legit.

Either way, all is good and I appreciate the feedback.

ok, in chicago, go to howard frum jewelers and you can have it checked. 5 south wabash. 8th floor. they are the biggest pre owned luxury watch grey dealer in town.they have their own inhouse watch repairs too. Let them check it and you should be fine. No need to open the case and check the movements. Experts will know right away if watch is fake or not..You can let them check the watch too if its need service...

[submariner16610]

i got you. some of the sales person in the ad knows less about watches. i got you.. go to howard frum and have it checked. you will be fine.. guaranteed...i dealt with those people for long time already... Another thing is go to torneau at water tower place in chicago downtown,pretend to trade the watch.They will check your watch and appraise it for you.So this way, they will check it's authenticity.. But to tell if the watch is stolen or not?i think that's pretty hard. it will take time for rsc to do it...i don;t know exactly how to do it...

[PeteNYC13]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

That's what the plan is. I was skeptical because when I sold my Deepsea last week, I met the buyer at an AD in Chicago. All this chick did was pick it up, look at it for two seconds and tell the buyer "yeah, it looks good to me". There was no way she would have known if it wasn't legit.

Either way, all is good and I appreciate the feedback.

__________________________________________________ ______________

This is another thread that I should probably just shut up and go to bed...

Wow, the "chick" who makes her money selling Rolexes wasn't jumping up and down with excitement at the opportunity to authenticate a Rolex that she knows nothing about so that you can buy it from someone else?!

I know there is a ton of AD "hate" on here and some of them don't help themselves with thier attitudes but come on, they are working and trying to pay bills like all of us. Imagine that whatever you do for a living, half the people that come in are using you to get information to go to your competitor to save money?! (try asking a lawyer for free advice or having your doctor "just take a quick look at something").

As for never buying from an AD, while I agree that DavidW is one of the people on here that you never hear bad stuff about, he is getting the Rolexes from somewhere - so it's an AD or somewhere else.

To each their own - I have never paid near asking price at an AD, the 40% is their "goal" and a 25% discount is my "goal", we meet somewhere in between. The same way most of us have never paid sticker price for a car - it's all negotiable.

I really hope this doesn't come off bad- it is a bit sarcastic. I also do get frustrated at the bashing of "all" AD's lumped as one, I am in sales so I tend to get defensive of sales people and prefer to assume the best until proven wrong.

Have a good night all...the Mrs. is about to pull the cord from the wall :-)


-Pete

[TurboWatch]

1. Buy the seller
2. Buy the seller
3. Buy the seller
4. make sure the watch has papers/warranty cards
5. If you buy on line, make sure you keep all the buyer-seller email/chat logs.

6. Be very careful. RSC doesn't verify if your watch is legit, but if you have to send the watch in for service, they will confiscate the watch if the watch was reported to them as stolen.