New Sub Date Running 4 Seconds Slow

[chris_nor_cal]

First 24 hours I've had it and its running 4 seconds slow.

Is there actually is a break in period or if this watch simply is not tuned properly?

Do I need to monitor its accuracy over a period of several days?

My old SD was only 1 second slow per 24hrs. Too bad my 16610 isn't running the same

[padi56]

Well being a mechanical watch you seldom get two thats exactly the same.And say a watch on your wrist and say the same watch on someone elses wrist would be different.Now your watch is still within the COSC spec of -4 to +6 seconds a day.New watches sometimes need a bit of time to bed in you could try different resting positions at night to try and gain a few seconds.But your watch is fine just wear it and enjoy it and the difference of 3 seconds is still quite remarkable for any mechanical watch.And considering that in 24 hours, the escapement of a mechanical watch pushes the gears 432,000 times. Since a day has 86,400 seconds, even a watch that runs five minutes fast or slow each day has an accuracy of over 99.6 percent! A finer mechanical watch that gains or loses about nine seconds a day or about a minute a week has a fantastic precision of over 99.99 per cent. This is very high precision, given the fact that the watch movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, little changes in lubrication and gear friction, shocks,etc and so on.Check your watch over a week with same time source 24 hours is hardly a test for any mechanical watch.Although myself would rather it gain 4 seconds that loose.


Mikes.

[ashu2289]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well being a mechanical watch you seldom get two thats exactly the same.And say a watch on your wrist and say the same watch on someone elses wrist would be different.Now your watch is still within the COSC spec of -4 to +6 seconds a day.New watches sometimes need a bit of time to bed in you could try different resting positions at night to try and gain a few seconds.But your watch is fine just wear it and enjoy it and the difference of 3 seconds is still quite remarkable for any mechanical watch.And considering that in 24 hours, the escapement of a mechanical watch pushes the gears 432,000 times. Since a day has 86,400 seconds, even a watch that runs five minutes fast or slow each day has an accuracy of over 99.6 percent! A finer mechanical watch that gains or loses about nine seconds a day or about a minute a week has a fantastic precision of over 99.99 per cent. This is very high precision, given the fact that the watch movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, little changes in lubrication and gear friction, shocks,etc and so on.Check your watch over a week with same time source 24 hours is hardly a test for any mechanical watch.Although myself would rather it gain 4 seconds that loose.

Excellent info pal

[Andad]

High precision in that it is 4 seconds slow each day - but without the +/- 0 sec/day accuracy you really want in the first 24 hours that you have had it?
Take it back and don't give up until you get one you are happy with.
Or you could give this one a chance to settle in and try some of the advice you have been offered before you flip it back to the AD.

[chris_nor_cal]

no i want to keep this watch, i guess if it gets worse ill send it in for a service. i just wondered if there was actually a break in period. thanks padi for your reply. i've tried that face up position to gain a second overnight and found it did nothing for me with my sd. 4 seconds doesnt really bother me.....hopefully. lol

[Nick Hacko]

.

[ashu2289]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

hi Chris -
a 24 hours is still a "warm up" period. Keep an eye on it for
week or so and then you'll know what exactly is rate per day.
Don't touch the winder trying to re-adjust. Wait for one week and
divide total error by 7. This will give you average daily rate.

If you find this to be still -4 sec/d then I would recommend
taking it to Rolex for further adjustment.
Your watch should keep better time than -4 s/d and
even if this is the best daily rate it is more desirable
if watch actually gains +4 sec/d.

Remember: daily rate is also total sum of errors in different position.
So during this trial period wear your watch on wrist as much
as possible, but same number of hours every day.
And over night place it always in same position.

Hope this helps.

While we are still on subject of mechanical time keeping
let me remind you that time keeping with of variation of
HALF SECOND IN 12 MONTHS was already achieved
in 1828:

Edward John DENT (1790-1853) manufacturer of Marine Chronometer and astronomical clocks was one of the most famous Watchmakers in England. in 1828. his ship chronometer No. 114 won first prize in the Premium Trials with a variation of 1/2 second in 12 months, and the Admiralty awarded him a prize of 300 pound. His chronometers were used on many explorations in Polar regions and tropics. No. 1800 was owned by David Livingstone (1836) during his African exploration. In 1842 Dent was granted the Royal Errant as "Chronometer Maker to the Queen and HRH Prince Albert".

He was the maker of great clock of House of Parliament, known as Big Ben.

And here is photo of very special member of our family,
Dent Marine Chronometer # 1508.



\

Nick

Gr8 info Nick

[Chris B]

Great posts guys,

Nick, I bet the Marine Chronometer has pride of place with you, such history would leave me dumbstruck. Its beautiful, thanks for sharing.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

hi Chris -
a 24 hours is still a "warm up" period. Keep an eye on it for
week or so and then you'll know what exactly is rate per day.
Don't touch the winder trying to re-adjust. Wait for one week and
divide total error by 7. This will give you average daily rate.

If you find this to be still -4 sec/d then I would recommend
taking it to Rolex for further adjustment.
Your watch should keep better time than -4 s/d and
even if this is the best daily rate it is more desirable
if watch actually gains +4 sec/d.

Remember: daily rate is also total sum of errors in different position.
So during this trial period wear your watch on wrist as much
as possible, but same number of hours every day.
And over night place it always in same position.

Hope this helps.

While we are still on subject of mechanical time keeping
let me remind you that time keeping with of variation of
HALF SECOND IN 12 MONTHS was already achieved
in 1828:

Edward John DENT (1790-1853) manufacturer of Marine Chronometer and astronomical clocks was one of the most famous Watchmakers in England. in 1828. his ship chronometer No. 114 won first prize in the Premium Trials with a variation of 1/2 second in 12 months, and the Admiralty awarded him a prize of 300 pound. His chronometers were used on many explorations in Polar regions and tropics. No. 1800 was owned by David Livingstone (1836) during his African exploration. In 1842 Dent was granted the Royal Errant as "Chronometer Maker to the Queen and HRH Prince Albert".

He was the maker of great clock of House of Parliament, known as Big Ben.

And here is photo of very special member of our family,
Dent Marine Chronometer # 1508.



\

Nick

Great info Nick.

Yes agree Nick sometimes when I see today the words chronometer and
my watch is out by just s few seconds a day I think of the watchmakers of by gone years.The real pioneers in this crazy horological world we live in today.One guy and a bit of a hero to me John Harrison, started to make his famous marine chronometers in the 1720s Harrison finally solved the precision problems with his H4 chronometer, essentially a large pocket watch.Harrison had created 'the most famous watch ever built’, H4. This measured five inches across and was equipped with jewelled bearings to reduce friction and a new form of large, high frequency balance for more stable timekeeping.The H4 was eventually to win him the Longitude prize money and change navigation forever,and win the £20000 Board of Longitude prize.Now when you think of then,he had no computers,lasers or mechanical robots,just very simple tools.All gears escapements etc all made by hand,with by todays standards very primitive tools.But when you think of todays movements,all now mainly made by robotic machines churning out 1000s a year with very little human assembly,Just think, whats in a few seconds daily.Now this is accuracy for you,think about this please. Harrison's son William set sail for the West Indies, with the H4, aboard the ship Deptford on 18 November 1761. They arrived in Jamaica on 19 January 1762, where the watch was found to be only 5.1 seconds slow!.So next time when your Rolex or any watch is just a few seconds out simply think of John Harrison who made a mechanical watch almost 300 hundred years ago that was as accurate as any mechanical wrist watch today,and almost better than some quartz.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Hi Chris,

it's funny, because I have had some Sub Dates and two SD's, and I experienced exactly the same thing! Subs went slow, the SD spot on! Very strange.

However, I went to my AD and made him adjust the precision. It only took him 30 minutes. He used a special device called "Microstella screwdriver", giving it a notch or two to adjust my Rolex.

After that, my Subs went absolutely spot on (I have a radiocontrolled alarm clock to compare it with). It as very fascinating that an automatic watch containing some 220 parts can keep up / compete with the ultraprecise radiocontrolled watch even for several months!

I have looked through the threads for you and found THIS link:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...ght=regulating

Hope it helps

[Nick Hacko]

.

[Chris B]

John Harrison was a genius, everyone should read Longitude by Dava Sobel, a very easy read of the mans work & achievements. The only sore note is the way the Board of Longitude denied him his prize money for a generation, shameful. :(


I tried to get a pic of my GMT with H4 and friends (particularly the spectacular H1) at the Royal Observatory last year but the security guard took a dim view of my request.
These were my consolation.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Nick Hacko

Hi Padi -
yes, and Harrison was not even a clockmaker by trade. He was carpenter
with not much formal education. The man was just genius.

Yes agree and in his day without doubt like you say a genius,his first clocks were made out of part wood.And even today with much better precision tooling moderns oils etc.Has modern-day mechanical accuracy progressed all that much.Again I am not a watchmaker,but today accuracy in todays watches are the fact that they are now precision mass produced.I would think it would be much harder to make a all hand made watch with such precision and accuracy today.

Originally Posted by Chris B

John Harrison was a genius, everyone should read Longitude by Dava Sobel, a very easy read of the mans work & achievements. The only sore note is the way the Board of Longitude denied him his prize money for a generation, shameful. :(

Agree Longitude is a very good read,and the documentary on the discovery channel was superb watching, Harrison one of the Daddies of watchmaking

[padi56]

Originally Posted by chris_nor_cal

no i want to keep this watch, i guess if it gets worse ill send it in for a service. i just wondered if there was actually a break in period. thanks padi for your reply. i've tried that face up position to gain a second overnight and found it did nothing for me with my sd. 4 seconds doesnt really bother me.....hopefully. lol

Well there is no hurry give it a few weeks,then if still not happy some ADs have inhouse watchmakers all thats needed is simple regulation.But the most important thing with any mechanical watch IMHO is consistancy.If any watch is say a minute out everyday if it was exactly the same everyday.It would still be a very accurate watch and all thats needed is a bit of regulation to get timing back to COSC standard.

[pcarson]

Originally Posted by padi56

Great info Nick.

...John Harrison who made a mechanical watch almost 300 hundred years ago that was as accurate as any mechanical wrist watch today,and almost better than some quartz.

Harrison's is an interesting story, Padi, no doubt about it. There is a good book called (as you might expect) Longitude, which details the nasty scramble for that prize you mentioned. It also goes into some intriguing historical detail about the politics and dirty dealings that surrounded the awarding of the prize, and shows that the horological world has always been full of the same jealousies that it has today!

Harrison, despite his genius, and incredible achievements, was treated (in one interpretation at least) pretty shabbily, which seems incredible since he eventually developed a chronometer that could do as you describe on a rolling ship for months at a time! I recommend the read; it's not high horology, but it is a nice reminder that people haven't changed.

http://www.amazon.com/Longitude-Geni.../dp/0140258795

PS Sorry; I think I missed the second page of posts, I see lots of other people mentioned the book so sorry to repeat old news. Chris, my Sub Date started -4/24, now it's +2/24 on average over a week after a bit of wear. No sweat.

[Tombstone]

That's weird my Sub is always off as well, my SD is always right on the money with the atomic clock. We joke about this at work and from time to time do random checks it’s always correct. My LV Sub is always 2 seconds off the mark don't know why the sub can't keep time like my SD. Two seconds is within the accepted standards so I will live with the Lv Sub for me the LV Sub is strictly one of my weekend watches, where as the SD is the die hard daily wear with no issues.

[chris_nor_cal]

Peter, thats interesting--i have some hope. Im on the second day now, -4 again.

[Watchlover]

Thanks for the info Chris...gotta do some inspection with mine.

[Erix]

Hi all,
My sub date D series bougth NIB from AD started of with +2s/day.
After a few months I noticed it was going +3s/day.
Last year it was going +4s/day.

I check from time to time and last check gave +5sec/day
In two years it has increased 3s/day.

I wonder if this is normal...I mean that the watch is slowly increaseing speed?
I was kind of hoping it would settle after a while.

Any input is appeciated...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Erix

Hi all,
My sub date D series bougth NIB from AD started of with +2s/day.
After a few months I noticed it was going +3s/day.
Last year it was going +4s/day.

I check from time to time and last check gave +5sec/day
In two years it has increased 3s/day.

I wonder if this is normal...I mean that the watch is slowly increaseing speed?
I was kind of hoping it would settle after a while.

Any input is appeciated...

Erix please stop worrying about your watch just little daily deviations are quite normal for mechanical watches.Try a few different resting positions at night,but as watches bed in they do mostly speed up by just one or two seconds.Just think of how many seconds in a day,and if your watch is out by 5 sec its still quite remarkable for a mechanical watch.But when your watch needs a service re-oiled and re-regulated,it will could be better.Now if it speeds or slows down outside the COSC spec,then just a bit of regulation is needed.

Originally Posted by chris_nor_cal

Peter, thats interesting--i have some hope. Im on the second day now, -4 again.

Well you have a very accurate watch then,now generally as the parts bed and wear in. Most watches tend to speed up by one or two seconds,give it a month or two. If then not happy get it regulated,most people would rather a slight gain
than a minus.