Question for any Doctor(s) out there?

[gmh1013]

Im trying to help a buddy get of hydrocodone and he cant afford suboxone.
Does tramadol help with opiate w/d's?
They gave him 2 weeks worth at 300mg a day
I read online that it does hit some opiate receptors in the brain but is it enough to tapper off hydrocodone over a few weeks?
I tried Tramadol once and it did nothing for me except made me sick...nothing for back pain or w/d's
Some claim it works but I think its worthless and can give you worse w/d's over time than the hydrocodone your trying to get off.....

[threemonkeys]

Off topic - but how are you doing, Greg?

[gwalker]

I'm not a MD but but I do know some about the subject both from academics and real life experience. Its a real shame he can't get subs because it really helps with both the physical and mental aspects of WD's. I don't think tramadol is going to be what he needs. Everyone's chemistry is different so it might work for him but he might consider going to a clinic. There are websites that give lists of doctors that can write suboxone scripts because many doctors can't prescribe suboxone. Have him try the tramadol but if its not working he shouldn't continue taking them. I wouldn't advise anyone stopping meds prescribed by their doctor but they need to tell the doctor that the drugs aren't having the desired effect. The only thing with suboxone is that if you just use the subs and then go back to perc's, vicodin, or hydrocodone it can make wd's that much worse. From what I understand taking sub's before withdrawl symptons set in can really have bad effects on your nerve receptors. I really wish him all the best because that can really be a tough demon to beat.

[Dr.Brian]

We used to prescribe ultram for select pts for breakthrough pain, but it probably won't do what he/she wants regarding withdrawal, and there is a risk of abuse as well. It seems there is an extended release ultram that may be more effective for withdrawl symptoms, but you can't taper it down easily. A physician controlled methadone taper is cheap and effective. As an added benefit people are afraid of it. Keeps them honest. He should go see an addiction specialist.
How have you been doing?

[gmh1013]

Originally Posted by gwalker

I'm not a MD but but I do know some about the subject both from academics and real life experience. Its a real shame he can't get subs because it really helps with both the physical and mental aspects of WD's. I don't think tramadol is going to be what he needs. Everyone's chemistry is different so it might work for him but he might consider going to a clinic. There are websites that give lists of doctors that can write suboxone scripts because many doctors can't prescribe suboxone. Have him try the tramadol but if its not working he shouldn't continue taking them. I wouldn't advise anyone stopping meds prescribed by their doctor but they need to tell the doctor that the drugs aren't having the desired effect. The only thing with suboxone is that if you just use the subs and then go back to perc's, vicodin, or hydrocodone it can make wd's that much worse. From what I understand taking sub's before withdrawl symptons set in can really have bad effects on your nerve receptors. I really wish him all the best because that can really be a tough demon to beat.

He went to a clinic but ins wont pay for suboxone.....its very expensive
he buys his pills illegal (i think, dont know for sure) and is afraid he will get caught or drug tested at work and fired and he cant miss much work at home tossing his cookies for 3/4 days
I fell sorry anybody that gets caught in the pain clinic trap like i did.....i think the doc cut him off or something.
I dont like to judge anybody in the opiate trap ....i fell into myself and its a hellish cycle to get off and not really his fault...opiates are just to powerfull
to get off without help.
They wanted to give him methadone at one clinic and I told him that would be the worse mistake in your life...its worse than hydrocodone to get off

[gmh1013]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

We used to prescribe ultram for select pts for breakthrough pain, but it probably won't do what he/she wants regarding withdrawal, and there is a risk of abuse as well. It seems there is an extended release ultram that may be more effective for withdrawl symptoms, but you can't taper it down easily. A physician controlled methadone taper is cheap and effective. As an added benefit people are afraid of it. Keeps them honest. He should go see an addiction specialist.
How have you been doing?

When Keith Richards says Methadone is worse than heroin i tend to believe him....im still taper down on suboxone and have a few week to go.

[Dr.Brian]

I think you probably gave him bad advice. That's exactly what he needs. Someone abusing opiates needs a physician planned and monitored taper. There's no way he's going to be able to do that himself.
People found to be abusing opiates were issued a planned taper and discharged from the pain clinic. We tried everything before putting people on opiates, and we did a great deal of invasive procedures. These days many pain clinics are little more than pill mill$, (barely) legally selling dope. It's a shame and a black eye on the profession. It's one of the reasons I did not pursue a career in pain management. Too many deadbeats.

[gmh1013]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

I think you probably gave him bad advice. That's exactly what he needs. Someone abusing opiates needs a physician planned and monitored taper. There's no way he's going to be able to do that himself.
People found to be abusing opiates were issued a planned taper and discharged from the pain clinic. We tried everything before putting people on opiates, and we did a great deal of invasive procedures. These days many pain clinics are little more than pill mill$, (barely) legally selling dope. It's a shame and a black eye on the profession. It's one of the reasons I did not pursue a career in pain management. Too many deadbeats.

The first "clinic" i tried was methadone....but im scared s**tless of it...
I have read to many horror stories about it.
As a pain clinc doc once told me most junkies know more about pain killers and the effects vs 1st year med student.
Like I told my pain doc ...you take the crap and then see how bad it is.....she told she would never take a vic even after surgery she is that scared of it herself....its hard to understand the opiate addiction thing for a doc that has never took the drugs ... except for doctor House.

[gmh1013]

Originally Posted by gwalker

I'm not a MD but but I do know some about the subject both from academics and real life experience. Its a real shame he can't get subs because it really helps with both the physical and mental aspects of WD's. I don't think tramadol is going to be what he needs. Everyone's chemistry is different so it might work for him but he might consider going to a clinic. There are websites that give lists of doctors that can write suboxone scripts because many doctors can't prescribe suboxone. Have him try the tramadol but if its not working he shouldn't continue taking them. I wouldn't advise anyone stopping meds prescribed by their doctor but they need to tell the doctor that the drugs aren't having the desired effect. The only thing with suboxone is that if you just use the subs and then go back to perc's, vicodin, or hydrocodone it can make wd's that much worse. From what I understand taking sub's before withdrawl symptons set in can really have bad effects on your nerve receptors. I really wish him all the best because that can really be a tough demon to beat.

Your telling me ....i have first seen what happens when somebody takes and oxy and a sub together and she was not a pretty sight.
It was my best friends wife and I had to undress her and help her clean up
She made me promise i would never tell my friend what happened and what she had done trying to get off oxycontin ...he was out of country for a month at the time.
She did get off after 2 failed attempts in 2009

[GradyPhilpott]

I agree that what ever he does should be done in conjunction with a medical professional, preferably an MD.

[Kayaker52]

I know what you are going through bro,I was cranked up on Norco`s for a few years they are wonderful in the begining,but then the monkey climb`s on your back!and he is hard to get off!I suffered cold turkey for 14 days,did not know about Suboxone then.After 5 years of being opiate free I got back on the wagon again this time on Roxicodone 30mgs!!Holy Sh*& what the hell was I doing,went right to a Dr.that prescribed Sub`s and felt 100% better,I am slowly tapering off them(real slow)I wish and pray that you can find a Dr.to get you on the meds and get better.Good luck bro.Brian.