Does anyone have a pic of Sealed hands done by Mr. Ridley?

[Rick-O]

Please, I would like to see a pic or hear your experience

[matt4hand]

They are sealed from the rear so they don't look any different than other hands.
My 5508 had the hands sealed on them. Here is a pic.

[Jagatai]

Cool! Thanks for the pics matt

[Jason71]

Matt is right. I have had a couple sets of hands sealed and made secure by Bob Ridley, and they are done from the back of the hand. The user cannot tell the difference.

[Rick-O]

Originally Posted by matt4hand

They are sealed from the rear so they don't look any different than other hands.
My 5508 had the hands sealed on them. Here is a pic.

Originally Posted by Jason71

Matt is right. I have had a couple sets of hands sealed and made secure by Bob Ridley, and they are done from the back of the hand. The user cannot tell the difference.

Many Thanks fellas!! That's exactly what I was hoping to hear

[apan]

My 5513 with sealed hands should be returning from Bob Ridley shortly. I will post pics when I get it!

[Keeperoftime]

That is a beauty Matt!

[matt4hand]

Originally Posted by Keeperoftime

That is a beauty Matt!

Thanks J-Man!

[T5AUS]

When you say sealed, do you mean that the original lume is sealed "from the back" with a varnish or glue to stabilise it, just curious, thanks

[Rick-O]

Originally Posted by T5AUS

When you say sealed, do you mean that the original lume is sealed "from the back" with a varnish or glue to stabilise it, just curious, thanks

Yes, exactly! I'm just curious if it made the hands any darker or not...

[ArcticMoose]

For undisclosed reasons I will be following this thread with great interest.

Anyone have photos of the bottom side of treated hands?

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by matt4hand

They are sealed from the rear so they don't look any different than other hands.
My 5508 had the hands sealed on them. Here is a pic.

Matt,

Im sorry to say that your hands are not stabilized.. the fingers you see in the pictures you posted above are mine! i used to own this watch and as stated in another thread, i serviced the watch when I owned it. i serviced this watch 8 months back or so before I sold it. I can tell you 100% that the hands are not stabilized. so if you're interested, you may want to look into getting the hands done.


just for the record for everyone to know, every watch is different. depending on the condition and shade/color of the tritium on your vintage, some hands will darken a bit and some will not.. all depends on the age and color.

I just posted this all in a thread I made about stabilizing my hands on my 6536-1
here are the pics from my other thread.



and her are what the back of the hands look like when they have been sealed.




no varnish used... accrylic or appoxy only... appoxy is stronger than accrylic and less wet when applying to the serface.
My hands were very yellow before so they did darken a touch as apposed to if they were more cream in color they wouldn't have darkened as much..

better to have a peace of mind than to one day have tritium start to flake off.. Once you see cracking, it's not good and will only get worse.

Also, there is alot of risk involved when servicing your vintage watch that has cracking old tritium... anything could happen when the hands are being removed or re installed no matter how good the watch maker. the tritium on the hands is like a layer of dust as thin as a sheet of paper. from the hands constantly under stress i.e. moving when setting the time or the second hand ticking, doesn't help the tritium either.

so if you see cracking under a 10x loop then you may want to consider getting the hands done before its too late and this goes for anyone with a vintage.

it is all done from the back so you will see nothing. If you are as picky as I am and will be inspecting the job with a loop after the service, then make sure you send it to someone who is well known because you don't want to get your vintage back with scratches and glue all over the front of the hands.. you want them to look perfect.

Like my watch, not one tell or one mark that wasn't already there before i did the service.

use a watch maker who is as particular and detailed as you are if you want the right results.

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by SubKing

better to have a peace of mind than to one day have tritium start to flake off.. Once you see cracking, it's not good and will only get worse.

Also, there is alot of risk involved when servicing your vintage watch that has cracking old tritium... anything could happen when the hands are being removed or re installed no matter how good the watch maker. the tritium on the hands is like a layer of dust as thin as a sheet of paper. from the hands constantly under stress i.e. moving when setting the time or the second hand ticking, doesn't help the tritium either.

so if you see cracking under a 10x loop then you may want to consider getting the hands done before its too late and this goes for anyone with a vintage.

Thanks for the photos and information!

Do you have any experience with hands that already have visible damage, such as the ones in the attached photo?

[T5AUS]

I have to say Sub King, the result on those hands are worrying, the thickness of that epoxy on the back surely is too much (this is going on your not so clear macro photo, so apologies if I missed something) will this not effect the weight and so the motion, ie speed wise or perhaps catch the dial or other hand, just that it looks like it sticks out quite a bit from original ? Also, are the treated ones not a little darker. This is just the way I see it and I admire you for tackling such a task, do you have some clearer photo's, thanks

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by T5AUS

I have to say Sub King, the result on those hands are worrying, the thickness of that epoxy on the back surely is too much (this is going on your not so clear macro photo, so apologies if I missed something) will this not effect the weight and so the motion, ie speed wise or perhaps catch the dial or other hand, just that it looks like it sticks out quite a bit from original ? Also, are the treated ones not a little darker. This is just the way I see it and I admire you for tackling such a task, do you have some clearer photo's, thanks

Hi,
I know its hard to tell from the pictures and this photo was taken while the epoxy was still wet..

First, This is a very important point you bring up.. If the epoxy was too thick of a coat, the hands would not clear eachother when re installed and would cause the hands to jam when passing over eachother... The weight is not an issue because the hands are clamped so secure onto the main hub, the hands can hold 10 times their weight and still function normally.

I should have posted a picture of the hands once dried.. The coat of epoxy is so thin on the back of the hands you wouldn't even think it would help... The point is most of the epoxy gets absorbed into the tritium which reinforces the tritium all together and what remaines is a super hard tritium that also has a 1 micron layer of epoxy on the bottom... this was all explained on the thread i made 2 weeks ago about stabilizing my hands... a simple search and you can read more about it. Also to note, just not any epoxy will do. there are so many out there and only 1 kind is best for this job...

The way I do it is the same way bob R does it.. Only he uses an accrylic that he brushes on in most cases. i don't like using accrylic because its hard to work with and more messy.. You cannot use a spray varnish on the back of the hands because the force of the spray can will blow the hands all over the place.. if you use a brush on varnish, it will dry too thick...

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by ArcticMoose

Thanks for the photos and information!

Do you have any experience with hands that already have visible damage, such as the ones in the attached photo?

Attachment 250237

Hi there.
Your hands that you posted a picture of is the exact result of what can and will eventually happen to everyone who has a vintage watch.. you cannot excape it.. once the hands get like that, there are only 2 options.. 1 option is to strip the hands and relume them and try to match the color to the dial as much as possible. the 2nd option is (which I would do) is to stabilize the hands so they don't get any worse than they already are.. they will not look better after the service, they will look the same and they will never get any worse than they are now which will help preserve the value and condition of your vintage.

[SubKing]

here are another 2 pics of the finished result.

[sailmed]

Also, check recent thread "Just Back from Spa Ridley"
I sent my 1680 Red Sub and just got it back.
The hands are sealed, and I have included (lower in the thread) pictures of before and after.

There is no perceptible difference to my eye pre and post sealing

[DiamondJack]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Hi,

The way I do it is the same way bob R does it.. Only he uses an accrylic that he brushes on in most cases. i don't like using accrylic because its hard to work with and more messy.. You cannot use a spray varnish on the back of the hands because the force of the spray can will blow the hands all over the place.. if you use a brush on varnish, it will dry too thick...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but for me and my taste, the change of colour of the hands compared to the hour markers is so dramatic as to have spoilt the appearance of a beautiful watch.

I have seen photos of many of Bob Ridleys restorations and servicing and have never seen anything like such a dramatic change of colour.

If it was my watch, I would be most definitely in favour of Bob's method of brushing on the acrylic and rely on his expertise to handle the hard work and messiness.

The epoxy resin you have used may have been easier to apply but the end result is way from satisfactory as far as I am concerned. I am only hoping the photos are showing the hands still not fully dry .......

But that's just my opinion and we all have our own point of view.

All the best.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

Please don't take this the wrong way, but for me and my taste, the change of colour of the hands compared to the hour markers is so dramatic as to have spoilt the appearance of a beautiful watch.

I have seen photos of many of Bob Ridleys restorations and servicing and have never seen anything like such a dramatic change of colour.

If it was my watch, I would be most definitely in favour of Bob's method of brushing on the acrylic and rely on his expertise to handle the hard work and messiness.

The epoxy resin you have used may have been easier to apply but the end result is way from satisfactory as far as I am concerned. I am only hoping the photos are showing the hands still not fully dry .......

But that's just my opinion and we all have our own point of view.

All the best.

Bob is a great guy who does great work, but even bob will tell you that depending on the watch and the current age, condition and color of the tritium, the hands can darken... everyone knows this... some watches darken and some don't. rather have it darken a bit and look as you say "dramatic" then have it look like crap once the tritium starts to fall out...
accrylic is even more wet than epoxy when first applied.. I'm able to complete the service, so i know what i'm talking about...

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by sailmed

Also, check recent thread "Just Back from Spa Ridley"
I sent my 1680 Red Sub and just got it back.
The hands are sealed, and I have included (lower in the thread) pictures of before and after.

There is no perceptible difference to my eye pre and post sealing

for those of you who do not want to take my word..
I'm sure you would say SteelerFan65 or for those of you who know him "Ken" has much knowledge on vintage.. aside from him owning several amazing vintage watches.

please see in this thread on the link below what he has to say about stabilized hands.
6 posts down from the top is where you will see his post.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?p=2465213

Some watch makers use super glue or nail polish to stabilize hands... there is no right way or wrong way, what ever the person doing the repair prefers using......
I don't like to use accrylic because its hard to work with and the chemical you have to mix with the accrylic powder is very strong and i'm worried it could eat through the tritium in most cases.

I'm sure accrylic is not the only thing that bob uses.

[Robbyvm]

I agree with diamondjack... The difference in colour between hands and markers is enormous, if this is realy due to the fixation process ??

[Saxon007]

Here is a photo of my Tudor sub on which Mr. Ridley sealed the hands. There is no color difference, they look the same as before. He also replaced the pearl (which was missing). I give him an A+ for his work.

[SMC84]

Here's my 16800 Bob R sealed the hands on. I didn't notice any significant darkening of the hands?

[SubKing]

you guys... my watch is from 1955 which is much older than the examples you all are showing me... also my tritium was very yellow before it was even stabilized...

you are comparing apples to oranges.. the epoxy I use is clear. the only reason the tritium darkened is because of its age and current yellow/orangish color... Ken, if you're reading this, I would love some back up.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by SubKing

you guys... my watch is from 1955 which is much older than the examples you all are showing me... also my tritium was very yellow before it was even stabilized...

you are comparing apples to oranges.. the epoxy I use is clear. the only reason the tritium darkened is because of its age and current yellow/orangish color... Ken, if you're reading this, I would love some back up.

was 1955 radium or tritium? Do you mean hands with a darker yellowish patina would darken more than a light patina when sealed?

[Cannop]

I did my Tudor sub myself, the thread is here:

http://50.30.33.71/~trfcom/showthread.php?t=201246

but here are the relevant pictures:





As has been said it shouldn't change the colour of the hands at all as the substance used to seal is a clear laquer applied to the rear of the hands.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cruvon

was 1955 radium or tritium? Do you mean hands with a darker yellowish patina would darken more than a light patina when sealed?

Hi,

my watch has a 1960 service dial with tritium.

the hands before this was done were very yellow/orange in color.

this will most deff make a HUGE difference in the color when sealing the hands...

When doing a watch that has little to no patina on the tritium, you're not going to notice much of a color change IN MOST CASES. same goes for cream patina.

this is part you should read cannop..

to get into it with lacquer... Lacquer is a hard substance, but in reality if exposed to water, can harm the lacquer over time as epoxy wouldn't make a difference wet or dry, it's very stable and very very hard.. two different animals completely.. It HAS BEEN SAID, that over time, depending on what you're coating, thin coats of lacquer can get stress cracks, from sun light exposure to weather conditions, it can also yellow in color as well etc... epoxy resin is more like a plastic once it hardens, unlike lacquer is more of a paint oil based substance.. To give you a better example.. If I have two sets of metal hands and I pour a very powerful paint thinner over each set of hands, the epoxy is going to survive the acetone substance and the oil based lacquer is not going to survive... Because epoxy is a resin, not an oil base.

There are also many other various reasons why i will not use lacquer aside from what i have said above....

the tritium on my hands was such a thin coat, i could literally see a shadow right through it.. they would also get very light when I would hold my hands up to the light and they would get much darker when I put the hands on a white sheet of paper... So even tho the epoxy was clear, it still added a thin layer of material to the bottom which causes less light to pass through them which can make them look darker in a way..

Also, as stated before, tritium is like dry dust powder, no matter how thick the agent you apply, it is still going to absorb like a sponge what ever agent you're applying to the tritium.. some newer tritium hands with no patina or cream patina still retain some of the natural surface agents that at one time made it strong and not so brittle so when applying a sealant, it will repel and not absorb unlike my hands that are so old and so aged and have so much patina, there is nothing left to protect the tritium, the tritium has turned into a dried out dirty dust thats going to absorb anything you apply to it... epoxy is a thick gel like substance, if anything else was used, like lacqure for instance, it is much thinner of an agent and it would have absorbed way worse..

I cannot explain these facts any better than i just have... I give up at this point if no one can understand any of this info...

This all goes with saying, depending on the vintage, some hands darken and some don't. ughhh

[SubKing]

here is a pic of the epoxy used.


as you can see its completely clear..
epoxy is a very very low acid based agent. If you apply epoxy to plastic that has been spray painted, it will not take the paint off. it will not effect the paint or the color. it will dry into a super hard clear solid. it's not the epoxy's fault my hands darkened.. its the tritiums fault.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by SubKing

Hi,

my watch has a 1960 service dial with tritium.

the hands before this was done were very yellow/orange in color.

this will most deff make a HUGE difference in the color when sealing the hands...

When doing a watch that has little to no patina on the tritium, you're not going to notice much of a color change IN MOST CASES. same goes for cream patina.

this is part you should read cannop..

to get into it with lacquer... Lacquer is a hard substance, but in reality if exposed to water, can harm the lacquer over time as epoxy wouldn't make a difference wet or dry, it's very stable and very very hard.. two different animals completely.. It HAS BEEN SAID, that over time, depending on what you're coating, thin coats of lacquer can get stress cracks, from sun light exposure to weather conditions, it can also yellow in color as well etc... epoxy resin is more like a plastic once it hardens, unlike lacquer is more of a paint oil based substance.. To give you a better example.. If I have two sets of metal hands and I pour a very powerful paint thinner over each set of hands, the epoxy is going to survive the acetone substance and the oil based lacquer is not going to survive... Because epoxy is a resin, not an oil base.

There are also many other various reasons why i will not use lacquer aside from what i have said above....

the tritium on my hands was such a thin coat, i could literally see a shadow right through it.. they would also get very light when I would hold my hands up to the light and they would get much darker when I put the hands on a white sheet of paper... So even tho the epoxy was clear, it still added a thin layer of material to the bottom which causes less light to pass through them which can make them look darker in a way..

Also, as stated before, tritium is like dry dust powder, no matter how thick the agent you apply, it is still going to absorb like a sponge what ever agent you're applying to the tritium.. some newer tritium hands with no patina or cream patina still retain some of the natural surface agents that at one time made it strong and not so brittle so when applying a sealant, it will repel and not absorb unlike my hands that are so old and so aged and have so much patina, there is nothing left to protect the tritium, the tritium has turned into a dried out dirty dust thats going to absorb anything you apply to it... epoxy is a thick gel like substance, if anything else was used, like lacqure for instance, it is much thinner of an agent and it would have absorbed way worse..

I cannot explain these facts any better than i just have... I give up at this point if no one can understand any of this info...

This all goes with saying, depending on the vintage, some hands darken and some don't. ughhh

Thanks for the detailed technical explanation. Also you said the dial was a service replacement, were the hands service replacements too because if the hands were from 1955 could that have been radium? I ask because radium might react differently to say if tritium was sealed using the sealant used.