At what point is a watch considered "vintage"?

[Downing]

A thread on someone's "vintage" watch from 1978 got me to thinking.

Is there a generally accepted definition of vintage when it comes to watches?

A quick check of the dictionary lists the following definitions:

1. A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics.
2. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage.
3. Length of existence; age.

I'm sure there's no bright line in terms of date but is there a generally accepted cutoff? In other words, are watches from the 1970s and earlier generally considered to be vintage but watches from the 1980s onward not (yet)?

[Tools]

Vintage...it's all how you look at it.. vintage means little more than old, but how old is old ?

Vintage wine could be last years reserve crop..



I'm going to say that a vintage watch would be one that was superceded by a later model or upgrade, so:

A vintage 14060 Sub would be one before the 14060M, however, a vintage 14060M could be one prior to the latest COSC dial..

A vintage GMT could be any that was prior to the latest 116710, so you can buy a "vintage" GMT right now, BNIB at an AD...

Almost anything out of production would be vintage.. but just because it is old, say a 15 year old 16610, would not; it would just be older..

[leopardprey]

Well, for Rolex USA, it is anything before a Saphire Cyrstal.

[bwalkerVintage]

I personally think that it would be something ~20-25 years old (or older). Thats the way it works for automobiles - classics could be considered to be 25 years or older. Just my .02

[mikey]

20+ years makes it a classic. I drive a classic and wear a classic Rolex.

[BLSampson]

Originally Posted by mikey

20+ years makes it a classic. I drive a classic and wear a classic Rolex.

And those of us over twenty are there by classics and/or vintage

[Downing]

To some degree, I'm a little bummed about this because I was 21 years old and in college in 1978 so it's a little hard to accept that anything from that era could be considered vintage.

As much as I hate growing old, it does beat the alternative.

[S2000 Driver]

At least as far as automobiles are concerned, my state defines "antique" as at least 25 years old:

State of Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles Early American Antique Plates

Wonder what that makes me?

[bwalkerVintage]

Originally Posted by S2000 Driver

At least as far as automobiles are concerned, my state defines "antique" as at least 25 years old:

State of Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles Early American Antique Plates

Wonder what that makes me?

Yes, I also heard of the 25 year rule.

[mike]

It really depends on the circle one moves it IMO.
Most "vintage" collectors feel to garner the term a watch needs to be 25 years or older. Some view true vintage pieces as possessing certain characteristics, specifically a plastic crystal, matt dial, gilt dial, a movement no longer made, or a reference no longer made.
Over time what constitutes vintage will probably change as new collectors enter the vintage arena. I can see gloss tritium dials falling into this as time goes on.
Noteworthy: vintage and desirability are two different things. Certainly there are any number of references that fall into a most everyone's definition of vintage, but lack desirability to the collector.
Desirability is much harder to define, but generally has that "something" that sets the watch apart. As new collectors enter and views change that "something" can change.
I think the real key is to decide what has legs and what is the "flavor of the month" LOL!

[maverick]

Even though it has a sapphire crystal. =) maverick

[mike]

Originally Posted by maverick

Even though it has a sapphire crystal. =) maverick

Absolutely Mav! Wonderfull example! Love the 16800.

[maverick]

I have always admired your nice white one, Mike. =) maverick

[Destroy]

vintage > 25 yrs
antique > 100 yrs

[astcell]

It's vintage if JJ can remember the day it came out and we can't.

[Wisher]

For what it is worth, below is my "antique" watch based on the market definition here. The certificate was stamped in 1996 and it has a saphire crystal.

The key is this: it is a Tudor Sub that is a very close look alike to the Rolex Sub but because Tudor stopped making Rolex look alikes my watch is considered to be an antique already since no new ones will ever appear (or that is the assumption). One interpretation of "vintage" then, can be based on whether a watch is or is not still in production.

"Antique" or "vintage" is different from the market definition of "used", which refers to watches such as a Black Dial/Face Sub 16610 that may be older than mine but because that model is still in production, it is being sold as "used", well, at least here.

Calling my Tudor an antique already, though, has created much greater demand for these and caused the price to escalate. These definitions, while sometimes arbitrary depending on whose definition you use, can work in our favor.

[bwalkerVintage]

Originally Posted by Wisher

For what it is worth, below is my "antique" watch based on the market definition here. The certificate was stamped in 1996 and it has a saphire crystal.

The key is this: it is a Tudor Sub that is a very close look alike to the Rolex Sub but because Tudor stopped making Rolex look alikes my watch is considered to be an antique already since no new ones will ever appear (or that is the assumption). One interpretation of "vintage" then, can be based on whether a watch is or is not still in production.

"Antique" or "vintage" is different from the market definition of "used", which refers to watches such as a Black Dial/Face Sub 16610 that may be older than mine but because that model is still in production, it is being sold as "used", well, at least here.

Calling my Tudor an antique already, though, has created much greater demand for these and caused the price to escalate. These definitions, while sometimes arbitrary depending on whose definition you use, can work in our favor.

I personally would not call something that is 11 years old antique or vintage - probably just "older". In reality, calling something as such is just a marketing ploy to drive up the price.

[jac67]

Agree with Chad.

The general opinion amoungst Rolex collectors is anything with acrylic crystal, however there are exceptions to the general rule.

There are the "transitional" watches with sapphire crystals BUT with tritium matt dials as Maverick and Mike above which are considered vintage.

Others say, "If Rolex doesn't service it, then it's vintage".


John.

[Blown Wide Open]

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Well, for Rolex USA, it is anything before a Saphire Cyrstal.

Bingo...

PAtrick