Disagreement with a Grey Dealer - Opinions Needed

[bradiowausa]

I'm having a disagreement with a retailer and I would like some feedback regarding who is right here. Thanks for your help TRF!! I don't know if I agree with this "normal wear" thing and that the link being "stiff" is not indicative of damage. More pictures to follow, this is only 2 of the 5 that I sent the retailer -

I sent the retailer the following message the pictures I sent are also below -

"I'm going to send you 5 photos by email - 4 of them are at the lugs that indicate damage, the last one is a picture of how the bracelet is stuck likely because of some of the damage to the lugs. Keep in mind that the watch was represented as like new, and none of this is was represented in the listing.

The watch is currently at my AD and they think that the RSC can fix by polishing the lugs, but I requested that the watch maker at the AD verify before it can get sent to the RSC. If it can't be fixed, then we have an even bigger problem than we have now, but that's not likely the case. If you do not get all 5 pictures, please let me know.

Then please let me know whether a condition of "like new" is appropriate. Then we can go from there."





The response from the retailer -

"I do not think that is damage to the lugs, that is normal wear from the bracelet being removed and would fit within our grading of Like New. The bracelet being stiff is not a sign of damage. If you disagree or are unhappy with the condition as described as Like New, you are welcome to simply return the watch. If you choose to make this decision, please make it sooner rather than later so that I don't have to send the box/papers out unnecessarily."

My response -

"The link that you see stuck there is caught on the damage from the lug. The damage causes the thing where the spring bar is at to be raised a very little bit, which catches the link. I think that this can be fixed by polishing, and I'll get confirmation from my ad this Thursday. I'll address your argument regarding the condition later.

Good idea, please wait until I get confirmation that the rsc can fix the stuck link which I am expecting Thursday to send me the box and papers. I'll let you know. I'll only want to return if the stuck link can't be fixed by polishing down the lug damage.

This was an unpleasant surprise but I guess this is much better than having band stretch that wasn't disclosed. The band looks fine here."

[bradiowausa]

3 of 5 and 4 of 5

[bradiowausa]

5 of 5

[bradiowausa]

Again, thanks for any feedback TRF!!! I really appreciate it. Of course the link in photo 5 of 5 is not permanently stuck there, I can move it from that position with minimal force. But I think that the damage from the lugs causes it to be "stiff" as the retailer says it, I can't think of a better way to say it.

[Jake B]

How old is the watch and bracelet, out of curiousity? Looks like nowhere near current..Is that an acrylic crystal?

[Director EDTF]

I am not an expert but in my opinion that does not look like "normal" wear and tear! It seems more like carelessness in removing and replacing the bracelet "several"times. Just my opinion. I would send it back immediately, Brad!

[bradiowausa]

One more thing (point of clarification) - I am asking my AD's watch maker to verify that RSC can fix the "stiff" link. In your opinion, will the RSC be able to get the top link to be completely free moving by polishing the damage out?

If the RSC can, I am planning to send to the RSC for a full service and polishing.

[kilyung]

The lugs look fine. It's the bracelet endlink that looks worn (from frequent bracelet removal with the wrong tool). I don't see how the endlinks can be repaired... Easier to just replace them.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by Jake B

How old is the watch and bracelet, out of curiousity? Looks like nowhere near current..Is that an acrylic crystal?

2002. There is absolutely no stretch, so I concede that the lack of stretch is indicative of it being "like new". But not this damage!

[fastward]

Looks like someone tried to remove the endlinks with a Dremel or chisel.

[Jay Tee]

That looks like pretty significant damage from careless attempts at removing the bracelet. Far from being 'llke new', return the watch IMO.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by kilyung

The lugs look fine. It's the bracelet endlink that looks worn (from frequent bracelet removal with the wrong tool). I don't see how the endlinks can be repaired... Easier to just replace them.

I agree 100% with removing them if it is possible to remove them. It's a 2002 explorer I. Is it possible to remove the bracelet endlink?

Sorry, I didn't know that was called a bracelet endlink? Yes, there is little to nothing wrong with the actual lugs.

[Jake B]

Is that a modern/current Air-King? I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think that bracelet is even for your watch. That looks to me like the bracelet from a 36mm explorer (notice the old school flip-lock clasp) that's been filed down by 1mm to fit the lugs of the Air-King.

The older Air-Kings had a non flip-lock clasp, and the current ones have a machined steel clasp. None that I've ever seen have a poor fit between the lugs like that.

Edit: Just saw your reply above after I wrote this..disregard. I was looking at the AK in your avatar. In any case, for a 2002 watch described as like new....well, that's not "like new".

[tommyz24]

my view is that if that watches bracelet has been removed by amateurs over and over again imagine if they opened the case

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by Jake B

Is that a modern/current Air-King? I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I don't think that bracelet is even for your watch. That looks to me like the bracelet from a 36mm explorer (notice the old school flip-lock clasp) that's been filed down by 1mm to fit the lugs of the Air-King.

The older Air-Kings had a non flip-lock clasp, and the current ones have a machined steel clasp. None that I've ever seen have a poor fit between the lugs like that.

I should have been more clear. This is a 2002 Explorer I. Thanks!

[Wish412]

I'm a newbie, but it looks pretty bad to me. Definitely not "normal wear". But rather "minor damage"...

[kilyung]

If you like the watch head, I'd see if the dealer will source you better endlinks/bars or just accept a return.

[Lucky777]

Anyone have a hacksaw? I want to remove my bracelet. Send it back, def not normal wear.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by kilyung

If you like the watch head, I'd see if the dealer will source you better endlinks/bars or just accept a return.

I like the watch head, is it possible to replace the endlinks?

[fastward]

Originally Posted by tommyz24

my view is that if that watches bracelet has been removed by amateurs over and over again imagine if they opened the case

This.

I would question what else the previous over did without the proper tools.

[StuartG]

It doesn't look like new to me. But he says if you're not happy, return it for a refund. So why go through all of this other stuff with an AD and RSC? Just return it for a refund and move on.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

I like the watch head, is it possible to replace the endlinks?

Appears you have hollow links so yes you can replace the endlinks. Just pop off the bars and the endlinks separate from the bracelet.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by StuartG

It doesn't look like new to me. But he says if you're not happy, return it for a refund. So why go through all of this other stuff with an AD and RSC? Just return it for a refund and move on.

I'm asking myself the same question. Number 1 - I have looked for this watch for years and this is the first I've seen of it. Number 2 - If I return it I'm on hook for shipping, return shipping, and the wire fee. This could be around $100. And that's not fair.

[nycpassat]

Return it for a full refund. Not worth the headache in the end.

[bradiowausa]

Originally Posted by nycpassat

Return it for a full refund. Not worth the headache in the end.

I'm starting to agree with this, but now I may not be on good terms with the retailer, so do I trust them? I send them the watch and I trust them to send a check. Their policy states that wire payments and shipping cannot be refunded so I may be out some money even if they do pay up.

By the way, I've dealt with this retailer before and had a great experience. Very very disappointed by this. There were more issues that the retailer has agreed to fix and I have not named the retailer, and prefer not to do so at this time.

[kilyung]

I'd return it even if I was out some cash. Lesson learned and hopefully you'll recoup your losses on your next watch.

[aaron123]

I agree this is too much sugar for a dime. Return it and find one in better shape.

[Soflobusinessman]

Hearing this makes me nervous of buying online, grey etc. you have risks involved and you seem like a candidate to buy bnib from an AD.

wear it and forget about it and think about the money saved from buying at AD

[fastward]

Originally Posted by bradiowausa

I'm starting to agree with this, but now I may not be on good terms with the retailer, so do I trust them? I send them the watch and I trust them to send a check. Their policy states that wire payments and shipping cannot be refunded so I may be out some money even if they do pay up.

By the way, I've dealt with this retailer before and had a great experience. Very very disappointed by this. There were more issues that the retailer has agreed to fix and I have not named the retailer, and prefer not to do so at this time.

It's definitely not "like new" and the damage isn't "from normal wear".

Hopefully, they refund you fully, if not, I agree that returning it, even at a $100 loss, may be the best decision.

Good luck.

[cop414]

You're obviously not happy, I wouldn't be either. I'd just send it back, who knows what else might me wrong with it internally?