Punched or handwritten papers in 1980?

[Tim_HKG]

1. I'd like to know is it possible for the serial number of the Rolex warranty certificate an handwritten one instead of punching in 1980?

2. If it is a handwritten one but without the details of the dealer, would it possibly be a fake or replica one?

Thanks in advance!

[Old Expat Beast]

I've got punched papers from the 1960s. Do you have a photo?

[Tim_HKG]

Don't know whether my thought is correct, however I know that handwritten papers does exit in the Rolex world, just curious of whether this paper is a true one?

[Old Expat Beast]

Looks ok to me. Better wait for more opinions though!

[Vincent65]

I would think it's possible.

[CharlieMae]

Papers/certificates for all Rolex should be punched well through the 80's. If you are willing to accept hand written certificates, then search ebay for blank Rolex certificate, buy one for $500, write in your serial number and now you have a full set.

Obviously, for this reason handwritten papers for the most part are considered worthless and add little to nothing to the overall value of a watch.

Genuine punched certificates, on the other hand, can add up to 50% to the value.

[LunetteVerde]

Its hard to proof the authenticity or manufactured even the paper is genuine. But experience will tell you some tell tale signs but not definitive.

I have owned a couple sets around the 80s with handwritten (proven legit as i've the jewellers proof of purchase, hang tags with serial #). Watches & blank papers are sent separately - common.

Even punched papers can be fabricated if you have the punch machines.. Anyone long enough in this hobby will remember the "papergate" & "fullsetgate" fiasco as premiums came with such manufactured full sets. So thread carefully.

Thats why i have moved on to collect rarities or fine examples and the b&p accessories are only a cherry on the icing ;-) Small premium ok, not top dollars for b&p

Forgive my longwindedness :-P


♛lunetteverde@Instagram♛

[CharlieMae]

I never said that handwritten papers couldnt be legit, I said they add little to nothing to the value of a watch.

Obviously, for papers to be handwritten or punched, they had to have been blank at one time, so blank papers exist all over the internet. As Lunette stated, those of us who have been around long enough have our own ways of determining if papers (punched or handwritten) are legitimate or not. I actually keep a database with hundreds of images to reference.

Unlike Lunette, I still seek out punched paper sets for my collection. Regardless of the few bad apples that fabricated papers (and still do) they all have their own tell tale signs and I see them on ebay and the forums from time to time and I avoid them.

True sets that pass the tests (my tests) I feel are worth the premium. That can include hand written papers as a few of my old GMT's do have hand written cards as that is the only way they were filled in, or by typewriter.

[Tim_HKG]

Just my thoughts, to sum up:

1. According to the serial number, I may evalulate that watch belonged to the production year of 1979-1980.

2. Is that paper a real Rolex's whether it's original from the watch or a later add-on blank one?

3. Is that kind of certificates the correct papers assigning to day-date models in 1979-1980?

4. Punched, handwritten or typewriting papers does exist in that period?

Hmmm...perhaps, at least, keeps on finding out more if there's any dealer information or company chop on the paper.

Anyhow, very useful informations from all of you! Thank you!

[Tim_HKG]

I've found a photo of one sample of Rolex certificate of guarantee papers. It was said that these papers were being used at the serial numbers of 4-9.5 million but I just don't know whether they're for all or just for some specific models.

By looking at this blank paper, it seems that it can be filling out either by punching or by hand-writing...?

[rootbeer7]

My 1970 Rootbeer has punched papers

[springer]

I'll like to add my opinion here, since I've noticed some "misinformation" in a couple posts.

First off, typed warranty papers were used in the USA beginning around 1979/80 - they were no longer punched. The punched papers continued outside of the USA.

There is nothing unusual about hand written warranty papers, while not common, it did occur and does not mean anything nefarious is going on because the papers are handwritten. Lets not forget, warranty papers back then were simply a document declaring the warranty and/or COSC certification for the watch. It had no value.

I have a data base on literally hundreds of warranty papers beginning during the 1960s and continuing into the 1990s. I also have on hand, almost three hundred warranty papers of all types, several of which are hand written.

Whether a warranty paper, either punched, typewritten or hand written, adds value to a watch is something the buyer will have to determine when making a purchase. There is also the issue of counterfeit papers, which could be the topic of another thread.

Below are a few samples of handwritten warranty docs.

[CharlieMae]

Springer: I have never really looked at the US/European certs to know for certain that they continued only for Euro Certificates, but you may be right. I know with 100% certainty that punched certificates continued on for many years beyond 79/80 but, I am not certain if it stopped in the US, I will look into that.

One thing I would like to mention is that the US certs were only for the United States whereas the Euro certs were used EVERYWHERE else in the world except the US. That also includes the Orient, South America, UK, etc.. which for me accounted for 90% of the sales. US made up a small percentage of the sales when compared to the rest of the free world and their populations. Your own examples show 1 out of 10 certs as being US. I have found very, very few US certs when compared to Euro certs.

See the links below to see certs in the 6m (early 80s) 7m ( early 80's) 8m range (mid 80s) to name just a few..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Role...item1e9b96befd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Role...item20f88257d4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Role...item1e9b888799

Notice they are all euro and 6 hole punch certs..

[crowncollection]

Written papers Certainly exist

[CharlieMae]

Genuine Hand Written papers absolutely, positively 100% exist. They just do not add the value to a watch as punched papers do, even when they are authentic.

Thats my viewpoint and experience from many years of buying, selling and collecting.

[springer]

Originally Posted by CharlieMae

Genuine Hand Written papers absolutely, positively 100% exist. They just do not add the value to a watch as punched papers do, even when they are authentic.

Thats my viewpoint and experience from many years of buying, selling and collecting.

They add value for many, maybe not as much value as punched or typed papers, and maybe not for you, but for others they do add some value. It is something the buyer needs to decide.

As far as my last post...you seem to question whether there were typed papers used in the USA beginning at the end of the 1970s. You aren't serious I assume!!! I didn't make this up Charlie...Rolex used typed papers for a couple decades in the USA beginning around 1980.

As far as punched papers being used outside the USA after 1980, I believe that is what I said in my last post. I quote my post here..."First off, typed warranty papers were used in the USA beginning around 1979/80 - they were no longer punched. The punched papers continued outside of the USA."

[CharlieMae]

Springer, buddy, you misunderstood my post.

I never said you were making it up, I said that I was never aware that only the Euro certificates were punched into the 80's. You may very well be right, all I said was that I was certain that certs were punched into the 80s, I just never noticed that they were exclusively euro certs.

I completely agree with you that Rolex used typed certs in the 80s, I have seen them and owned such watches, I just assumed they used them both, I never noticed that they were only on US certs. If you are correct, and I have no reason to doubt you are, you taught me something today I never knew.

Getting to the value of hand written over punched, I dont think there is anyone who will disagree that Punched certs are FAR more difficult to counterfeit than hand written ones. The simple fact that specialized machinery must be used to create those punches, as opposed to any ball point pen, justifies that reasoning.

When a hand written cert accompanies all of the other stuff like numbered hang tags, original sales receipts, proper booklets and nick nacks, then YES I consider it proper for the set. That is just the way some papers were done back then and you have to accept them as they are.

In the end, every buyer/collector has to weigh what they put value in and what they do not.

[jedly1]

a lot will depend on the watch... if it is a non cosc watch with a short ''guarantee only'' paper for example 6263/5 or 5513 then hand written papers up to the start of letter prefixed serials is perfectly normal and usually, though some punched exist. they are the rarity.

if is a cosc watch i expect it to come with punched ( or as john pointed out in USA , typed papers) never handwritten ex factory.

what watch is it for, the picture you show seems to be for a gold model, and with a sub? booklet...if thats the case and its a gold those aren't the papers that should be with the watch ex factory.


ps. i should caveat .....the only recurring substantiable full cosc but handwritten papers i would cite as an exception are bucherer supplied watches who seemed to have their own system going on, though I've never known anyone figure out why!!!!

[Old Expat Beast]

First word in German on the booklet is "Your", so that may be a Your Rolex Oyster booklet.

This seems to be the watch in question: http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=402481

[jedly1]

god knows why i was thinking sub ...mental note ...rolex make non sports models too apparently lol.

well thats easy ...its a cosc standard watch with completely the wrong papers which are garantie only short papers not a cosc cert.

those are not the papers it would have left the factory with.

[LunetteVerde]

Thank you guys for the most interesting discussion and i learnt a couple interesting facts!!!

I beg to differ if punched papers are 100% authentic - no such thing. On the punch machines - its easier done than said. Not long ago a prominent ebay seller & his sidekick(s) was caught pants down with the shenanigans

Its a similar machine that is used to punch passports and forgers have access to such machines. State sales / Vintage stores of such obsolete machines are a plenty if you look hard enough

So whether its punched or written or blank (yup, some of these are still legit sets) - its just a paper to me (expired warranty) IMO. Yes, there is a premium for B&P but just not for me.

However significant provenance to the watch itself is a totally different ballgame (once again IMO)


♛lunetteverde@Instagram♛

[HolyCosmic]

totally agree with What Chris had said. i would go one step further to say that i appreciate the recent RSC service paper esp the one you get from RSC yourself more than some punched paper (esp heritage service or warrranty) yourself. almost anyone can create punched paper these days if they find hard enough..

[Tim_HKG]

Finally, some facts came to light when I investigated the phenomenon. According to my understanding, this kind of Rolex version 572 guarantee paper, even if it's a real one(no matter of whether it's punched, handwritten or just a blank one), is just for non COSC models only! Basically, that's the wrong paper for my mentioned model!

It seems, to some extent, a dishonest seller has undercover stories imposing upon me...!

[CharlieMae]

"those of us who have been around long enough have our own ways of determining if papers (punched or handwritten) are legitimate or not."

You have just uncovered one of the ways. Short form and Long form certificates were used on different watches.

I wont get into all of the ways but, the last tidbit I will offer is that the numbers on the bottom right corner of the certs can also help to determine serial numbers and years of production.

There are tons of little nuances that can tip you off to genuine or not.

Glad you didnt fall victim..