HELP REQUESTED: 1950s Oyster Perpetual

[dbhak22]

Hi folks, I have taken a few months off of browsing/reading on TRF simply due to wanting to focus my time on family, ha...but now I'm back. I found a 50s (jeweler has the original purchase certificate from Hong Kong and that is dated 11/1/1956) Oyster Perpetual I'd like to get your input on. Be forewarned that he doesn't take great pictures so apologies in advance. From the research I've done, I can't seem to find any other examples of this dial. I have no reason to believe the watch is not what it is (jeweler is selling for the son of the original owner) but was hoping to get a reference number and any info on the dial as I can't seem to pinpoint it. I have found examples where the hour markers are similar but the "3"/"6"/"9" circle markers are what I haven't seen before.

Your thoughts?

[Mark020]

The dial is clearly refinished.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Mark020

The dial is clearly refinished.

Yikes. Thank you so much. Will ask the jeweler about it...but I will not be purchasing.

[R.W.T.]

Kind of unfortunate...it's a vey unique dial.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Kind of unfortunate...it's a vey unique dial.

Yeah, agreed...I believe it is YG too. And the price was real nice...although now that I know the dial is not 100% original, it helps explain.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Mark020

The dial is clearly refinished.

Can you (or anyone else) comment on what was done to the dial? I found out the reference is 6284 and doing some more research found the following images:





I know the dials are not identical but my original concern of the markers seem to be safe? Unless the two above are not original either?

[joe100]

The paint was stripped and someone repainted it and not very well. It was likely done decades ago.

[Old Expat Beast]

The untidy text, especially on the lower half of the dial, and the lack of the word 'Swiss' at the 6 position are telltale signs of a repainted dial. I'd be very interested to see the HK paperwork, though.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The untidy text, especially on the lower half of the dial, and the lack of the word 'Swiss' at the 6 position are telltale signs of a repainted dial. I'd be very interested to see the HK paperwork, though.

Thanks all, great info. Clearly, I'm staying away on this one.

Here's what they sent me regarding the HK paperwork though:

[watchcrank]

+1 refinished as said above.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by dbhak22

Thanks all, great info. Clearly, I'm staying away on this one.

Here's what they sent me regarding the HK paperwork though:

Thank you! Nice paperwork, although only a dealer receipt, not a Rolex warranty paper, which would have added a bit of value to the watch.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Thank you! Nice paperwork, although only a dealer receipt, not a Rolex warranty paper, which would have added a bit of value to the watch.

You're welcome Adam. Yeah, no official Rolex papers unfortunately...although there is also the chronometer certification paper with the watch (don't have a picture of that though). But I'm passing on this due to the dial although the watch is in great condition otherwise considering the age. We didn't finalize on price but it was going to be in the range of $1800, FYI.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by dbhak22

You're welcome Adam. Yeah, no official Rolex papers unfortunately...although there is also the chronometer certification paper with the watch (don't have a picture of that though). But I'm passing on this due to the dial although the watch is in great condition otherwise considering the age. We didn't finalize on price but it was going to be in the range of $1800, FYI.

It's a strange one. The watch may even have been sold secondhand, looking at that receipt, and that was in 1956, yet the applied coronet on the dial looks more like the thinner kind that was introduced around the early 1960s. I'm not an expert in these matters, though, and am really just thinking out loud. Anyway, thanks for sharing this.

[R.W.T.]

Well...here's the deal...if the chronometer certificate is original to the watch and matches both the serial number and the movement number...and the price is right and you LIKE the watch...

The dial can be corrected fairly well....It will always be refinished but that was also not SUPER taboo or uncommon 25 years ago or more...

The figures are kind of rare and it's unique.

Papers that old matching are a plus in my humble opinion...because they are generally NOT there.

Depending on the price of the watch....and how much you like it.

It's a bargaining point for sure...and...hurts the value quite a bit but it doesn't hurt the watch.

[R.W.T.]

I see it is a 6284.

Is the bracelet a "Swiss" bracelet or C and I?

Is it dated 56?

You are adding value all the time...there.

If that's an original 56 Swiss Rivet 19mm band...you've added some because it fits JCK.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Well...here's the deal...if the chronometer certificate is original to the watch and matches both the serial number and the movement number...and the price is right and you LIKE the watch...

The dial can be corrected fairly well....It will always be refinished but that was also not SUPER taboo or uncommon 25 years ago or more...

The figures are kind of rare and it's unique.

Papers that old matching are a plus in my humble opinion...because they are generally NOT there.

Depending on the price of the watch....and how much you like it.

It's a bargaining point for sure...and...hurts the value quite a bit but it doesn't hurt the watch.

Well, this wasn't a piece I was out hunting for...just kind of showed up as I was looking for dealers around me. I incorrectly assumed the watch was YG, it's actually SS which makes it slightly less appealing for me (I don't have any precious metals in my collection...outside of WG surrounds or bezel, ha). As you can see from the couple of pics below, the pics are simply very low quality and the poor lighting makes the watch look YG. In any case, if it was a good deal, I figured why not. Enjoy it for a bit and then flip it down the road (and who knows how long that road would be). Seller is asking $1800 who is selling it for the son of the original owner.

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I see it is a 6284.

Is the bracelet a "Swiss" bracelet or C and I?

Is it dated 56?

You are adding value all the time...there.

If that's an original 56 Swiss Rivet 19mm band...you've added some because it fits JCK.

Have to admit that I'm not quite sure what the difference is between "SWISS" or "C&I" and I unfortunately don't have a clear picture of the bracelet to determine. But what I do have is below...definitely a rivet bracelet and am fairly certain it is original to the watch. Seller states the bracelet is in great condition considering the age and has most (if not all) the links as he has a 8.5" wrist and it fits well.

Apologies in advance for the rookie question but what does "JCK" mean?

[R.W.T.]

Looks like a C and I.

Swiss bracelets have closed rivets. Those are open meaning they have a hole in them.

Doubtful that it would be original if the watch was bought in HK because...C and I were USA contract bands.

So you would actually have to see the bracelet in person to see if it has a 56 date code on it.

JCK is Jean Claude Killy.

It is a pre daytona chronograph.

The movement looks VERY nice on this watch and this is one of the perks of finding the occasional one that was few owners and that was cared for.

It's not cheap but it's a good watch.

[R.W.T.]

If you like it and aren't looking to make money...

I'd negotiate a better price with the seller based on the refinished dial issue.

You have a nice piece there. Get the dial properly reprinted and service the movement and wear it.

If you come across a dial someday..hey! Win win.

Original print dials (not that style) for this reference do show up from time to time.

I bought one a couple of months ago.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Looks like a C and I.

Swiss bracelets have closed rivets. Those are open meaning they have a hole in them.

Doubtful that it would be original if the watch was bought in HK because...C and I were USA contract bands.

So you would actually have to see the bracelet in person to see if it has a 56 date code on it.

JCK is Jean Claude Killy.

It is a pre daytona chronograph.

The movement looks VERY nice on this watch and this is one of the perks of finding the occasional one that was few owners and that was cared for.

It's not cheap but it's a good watch.

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

If you like it and aren't looking to make money...

I'd negotiate a better price with the seller based on the refinished dial issue.

You have a nice piece there. Get the dial properly reprinted and service the movement and wear it.

If you come across a dial someday..hey! Win win.

Original print dials (not that style) for this reference do show up from time to time.

I bought one a couple of months ago.

Thanks so much. As always, I learn so much on TRF.

I think I'm going to hold off for now as it will require a bit more work than I want to do for this particular piece. But the jeweler has added me to his "to contact" list for any Rolexes he gets his hands on so hopefully he'll find one I'm willing to make a deal on soon...of course I'll get the TRF community's stamp of approval before swiping the credit card, :)