SS Daytona. Maybe we can stop ADs charging premium

[sphereman]

Yesterday.. one of my close friends (who also collects Rolex watches and Patek) had a conversation with one of the Rolex USA execs in New York.

The Rolex exec. says it is against the Rolex USA's policy for any US AD to sell above MSRPs on SS Daytona watches (or any other Rolex watches).

In response, the friend told him there are many (if not all) dealers in LA charging more than MSRP on the SS Daytona watches and the Rolex exec. told if the names of the ADs are reported, Rolex will look into it and take care of it (meaning those ADs won't get SS Daytonas anymore if the practice is found to be true).

so I guess Rolex USA does want ADs charging more than MSRPs on the impossible-to-get Daytona watches and if we start reporting those greedy ADs charging 12k-13k on daytonas, to Rolex USA, maybe we can deter many ADs from doing it...

Just a thought..

[Wolfgang427]

Would be great, but its impossible to enforce. With the "I will sue mentality" in the USA you would literally have to have a Rolex employee undercover catch the AD doing it. And then the AD would argue "I was set up" by Rolex so they would not send me anymore watches.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Before anything else, RUSA should then stop using the term "Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price"...

[BigHat]

Maybe this is a LA issue, but I'd think 99% of ADs sell at MSRP if the constant threads on the SS Daytona are any measure. Of course, the issue is scarcity and the inability to get one at any price is the true source of frustration.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Maybe this is a LA issue, but I'd think 99% of ADs sell at MSRP if the constant threads on the SS Daytona are any measure. Of course, the issue is scarcity and the inability to get one at any price is the true source of frustration.

Yes. that might be the case. But, here in the LA area, most ADs want about 12k-13k for a new Daytona which is just plain greed and makes me not want to deal with Rolex at all..

Hope the situation gets better here in LA.

[Markg]

are you sure these so called LA "ADs" are really ADs? for example, not all torneau stores are rolex AD's; some are some arent, so the ones that arent sell daytonas at a premium

[RolexADinFL]

I ONLY sell them at MSRP, but I do hold them back. When an established customer of mine ask about one, I return from the vault with a white & black and ask which color they want. They are usually amazed and walk out with a SS Daytona at MSRP.

[toph]

This is exactly what i said last week. and i was told by fellow members- welcome to free enterprise etc and that it is perfectly acceptable in the USA.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by toph

This is exactly what i said last week. and i was told by fellow members- welcome to free enterprise etc and that it is perfectly acceptable in the USA.

I totally agree with what you said in the other post...
Apparently Rolex does not like practice either... so we should all compile a list of those greedy ADs and send the list to Rolex USA.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by Markg

are you sure these so called LA "ADs" are really ADs? for example, not all torneau stores are rolex AD's; some are some arent, so the ones that arent sell daytonas at a premium

Oh yes, I am talking about authorized dealers. See I said 'ADs' not dealers.
I know at least a dozen of Ads in the LA that does this.. PM me if you want to know these dealers.

[Ursa Major]

Originally Posted by sphereman

I totally agree with what you said in the other post...
Apparently Rolex does not like practice either... so we should all compile a list of those greedy ADs and send the list to Rolex USA.

My understanding is that Rolex doesn't allow discounting either. Do you plan to assemble a list of AD's that discount watches and turn them into Rolex as well?

What's the ethical difference between a dealer charging less than MSRP for a Rolex that it can't get MSRP for, and a dealer charging more than MSRP for a watch that people will buy at that price? It's the market clearing price either way.

[sphereman]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

My understanding is that Rolex doesn't allow discounting either. Do you plan to assemble a list of AD's that discount watches and turn them into Rolex as well?

What's the ethical difference between a dealer charging less than MSRP for a Rolex that it can't get MSRP for, and a dealer charging more than MSRP for a watch that people will buy at that price? It's the market clearing price either way.

Yes.. there might be no ethical difference but we, loyal customers, like discounts but not jacked-up prices. that is the difference

[Ursa Major]

I'm sympathetic to the sentiment - if I could get an SS Daytona at MSRP, I'd write the check today. Unfortunately, there's a misunderstanding of simple economics inherent in the premise that Rolex can suddenly make dealers charge MSRP and we can all buy Daytonas at that price tomorrow - a misunderstanding that seems to be endemic in politicians, who also think they can legislate supply and price (their citizens typically suffer the consequences of their foolishness). Ultimately, you can legislate one or the other - supply or price - you can't legislate both.

First, as has been said in some of the other bitch-fest threads on the same topic, the only party that can really change this tomorrow is Rolex - and not by making their AD's charge list. Rolex can change the equation by increasing the supply of SS Daytonas. That would presumably increase profit for Rolex, since an SS Rolex costs less to manufacture than a TT. Right now there's an oversupply of TT Daytonas at MSRP, since they're readily available at a discount - and at a street price less than SS models. Even without expanding total production (which they could do if they wished), Rolex could just shift some current TT production to SS, people could get the SS's that they want, and Rolex could sell the same total number of Daytonas at a lower cost = profit goes up. Everybody's happy. Why doesn't Rolex do that tomorrow? Nobody outside Rolex knows, but presumably they don't do it because there's a value to the brand by creating artificial scarcity in the marketplace. Harley-Davidson did it for years, building a lower number of big twins than the market wanted. The result? Dealers would put your name on a list and sell you a bike at MSRP - in a couple of years - or they'd find you a bike today - at a few thousand $$ over list. Your choice - what's more important to you, immediate delivery or paying list [i.e. below market] price? As soon as Harley increased production to meet demand a couple of years ago, wait lists and above-MSRP pricing went away. Immediately. The same would happen with SS Daytonas. Btw, this is why anybody who thinks Rolex a) doesn't know that AD's are charging over MSRP for SS Daytonas and b) thinks Rolex would actually take steps to stop it, is naive. Rolex knows exactly what's going on, and tacitly encourages it.

Harley also officially didn't approve of charging over MSRP, but there are plenty of legal ways around it without violating legal or manufacturer rules (and in the extraordinarily unlikely event that Rolex actually tried to stop AD's charging over MSRP, you'd see them in this market immediately). Ultimately, if people are willing to pay $12,500 (or whatever) to get an SS Daytona today, that's what they're going to pay, one way or another. There aren't enough to go around at $9200, there are plenty to go around at $12,500. Don't like it? Get your name on a list and wait two years. Or pay the market price. Your choice. The one thing that asolutely won't happen if Rolex maintains current production/allocation levels is to have an unlimited supply of SS Daytonas at your AD at the current MSRP.

[BillA]

About a year ago, an AD called me for a SS Daytona, he wanted $2k over list, told him to stick it where the sun don't shine. Called Rolex USA and asked if the AD could do that. They said they could charge anything they wanted. The person I spoke to said the tag said "suggested" retail price. If they told the AD what to charge, that would be price fixing and illegal in US.

How many of you called RUSA to complain when the AD gave you a discount?

[CPCC]

What about xbox and sony playstation. When there was a shortage, no store charged above list and no store is allowed to sell below list.

[chevycorvette]

Originally Posted by RolexADinFL

I ONLY sell them at MSRP, but I do hold them back. When an established customer of mine ask about one, I return from the vault with a white & black and ask which color they want. They are usually amazed and walk out with a SS Daytona at MSRP.

sound like a good AD. would u sell me one at msrp. i never flip for the quick bucks. (waiting list #1)

[brainbizz]

I really don't get it. It is not that difficult to figure out. If the AD only gets X amount of Daytonas they will go to their best customers list or no list most likely at MRSP. The list seem to come into play only if none of the VIPS want the watch. It is not so different than the Ferrari game. Establish a relationship and become a VIP. If one doesn't like it then don't play the game and buy something else.

[veilstylez]

Originally Posted by sphereman

Yes.. there might be no ethical difference but we, loyal customers, like discounts but not jacked-up prices. that is the difference

That is the difference yes, but I think its only fair though ....you can't ask for both ways, unless you buy a crap load of watches from the AD. The only ones Im mad at are the ones that don't discount and put a premium price on Daytonas. I think that if a AD is not going to follow rules and give discounts(which is great!) its only fair that they can ask a premium for Daytonas. And AD's that dont discount a cent should only sell Daytonas at List..thats fair. Its hard to find a AD that will do both, but there out there. I understand what you mean though, but the way I see it is...both types of AD have there avantages and disavantages. There are plenty of other AD's that dont charge a premiums on Daytonas. And for the ones that don't, the avantages is you get one at List price(great) but the disavantage is that you have to be a loyal customer to get one which you have to spend $$$$ and buy XX watches. This is Great for loyal customers but bad for people that dont buy x watches a year. So for ADs that do charge premiums, the avantage is you get one from a AD now without building any kind of relationship or the BS of spending thousands of dollors on XX watches. Disavantage is that your paying premium price ....but im sure that this type of AD will give discounts on other Rolexes which will save you money and should offset some of the premium paid on the Daytona. I think both are great in there own way....keeps both parties happy.

And also, can't hate on ADs that only sell to there VIPs. Because I'd be pissed if my AD sold a limited watch I wanted to walk-in first time customer and didnt hold it for me with all the business I give them.

Dude I worked my ass-off for my Daytona and GV, but it was well worth it. Im surprised you still havent got your Daytona yet with all the watches you buy, you deserve one by now forsure. I know you've sold atleast 5-6 new watches in the last 3 months which means you bought them from some AD. Maybe you need to switch ADs brotha.

But you know what? ...the whole Daytona buying system is wack!!! Bro get the WG black one like you wanted, I know you can afford it I know if I can afford it I'd get it over the SS.

[taylor]

A family friend owns a jewelery store (AD for rolex). Before she became an AD, she had THeuer and omega, which she would sell to me at cost. However, she says she can neither discount a Rolex nor sell above MSRP. Also, she said she had to reject a customer who wanted to buy too many at one time.

I assume it's because it's a small store and she doesn't want to do anything which may cause her to lose the brand.

[jbjenkins]

I admit I don't check around a lot, but the two in los angeles that I have checked with said they would hold onto any Daytonas they get for "preferred customers" and sell at msrp.

I do agree that "forcing" a retail price would in most cases be illegal in California - if not in the U.S.

Given that it doesn't mean that complaining to Rolex might get some dealers deleted from the Daytona rotation by magic.

[WatchTimes]

Supply and demand...
Right or wrong not much you can do.
Take your business elsewhere, luckily with the web you now
have lots of options.

[ral]

Rolex can change the equation by increasing the supply of SS Daytonas.

Agreed. It is pretty easy to get a TT Daytona. If Rolex reduced their TT production and made more steel ones...

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by ral

Agreed. It is pretty easy to get a TT Daytona. If Rolex reduced their TT production and made more steel ones...

Just a comment on the production mix. Ursa Major asserts that the SS models are cheaper to produce thus sold at a greater profit. I feel the opposite is true.

The Daytona movement is among their most complex. They seem to have come to the conclusion that they can make more profit by putting that movement in TT or gold cases and bracelets. (Do we REALLY think Rolex doesn't understand how to maximize its own profitability?) We all know a YG watch sells for a premium over a SS version that's much higher than the gold content involved. Personally, I think they sprinkle relatively few SS models out there simply to say that they sell them in SS, but would love to sell all the movements they make in a gold case.

[ral]

but would love to sell all the movements they make in a gold case.

Yes, a 15K premium is a lot even for a white gold case and bracelet.

[ral]

but would love to sell all the movements they make in a gold case.

Yes, a 15K premium is a lot even for a white gold case and bracelet.

[nomaam]

I have not seen an AD here in Miami charging prices over MSRP on SS Daytonas. Then Again i have not seen any SS Daytonas in their showrooms to beging with. Thery can not do that, they know they can't do that. any one can report them to Rolex USA and they can loose not just the SS Daytona but the line.